A $2.14-billion federal loan for an Ottawa-based satellite operator has Canadian politicians arguing about whether American billionaire Elon Musk poses a national security risk.

The fight involves internet connectivity in remote regions as Canada tries to live up to its promise to connect every Canadian household to high-speed internet by 2030.

A week ago, the Liberal government announced the loan to Telesat, which is launching a constellation of low Earth orbit satellites that will be able to connect the most remote areas of the country to broadband internet.

Conservative MP Michael Barrett objected to the price tag, asking Musk in a social media post how much it would cost to provide his Starlink to every Canadian household that does not have high-speed access.

  • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Destroying the planet? And geosync doesn’t work period. What could have been done is the money that was given to the telecoms actually be used to run fiber to everyone that they promised…

    • Grappling7155@lemmy.ca
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      1 month ago

      You can’t reach everywhere with fibre. Some areas of the far north are too remote and too sparsely populated for it to ever make sense to put in fibre, and it will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

      This deal provides critical infrastructure to those places while not binding us to the whims of an egotistical fascist asshole.

      • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        This is where I am. If he just stepped back and followed the laws for whichever region he was providing service in, I wouldn’t have a problem with it being provided by an egotistic asshole. But he has done other than that a number of times, and that’s a problem. All this ignores the national security issues, which people should have gotten a refresher on during COVID with the N95 mask issues.

        Sometimes the more expensive option just makes sense if national security is a factor.

      • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        You can’t reach everywhere with fibre. Some areas of the far north are too remote and too sparsely populated for it to ever make sense to put in fibre, and it will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

        Norway saunters into the chat, shakes its head over this ignorant drivel, and walks back out while tapping it’s temple with a forefinger

        • Grappling7155@lemmy.ca
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          1 month ago

          Norway has a population of around 5 million in an area the size of 385 thousand sq km. As of the 2021 census, the territories have a combined population of around 117 thousand people in an area just under 3.6 million sq km.

          The difference of scale there is massive. Kudos to Norway if they’ve done a good job extending their fibre networks, but I sincerely doubt we’ll be able to achieve anywhere near the same level of penetration in the most environmentally harsh and most rural areas of our country with just fibre technologies.

          • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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            1 month ago

            Norway has one of the most aggressively traversing-hostile geographies on the planet. It has 1,200 fjords compared to about 240 for Canada. Plus, their mountains are far steeper and more impassable, and the fjords are deeper.

            If Norway can run dedicated fibre optic to every hamlet over 500 people there, Canada can run fibre optic to any hamlet anywhere in our country for half the price.

    • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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      1 month ago

      I’m pretty sure you’re conflating the American situation with the Canadian one. America gave various telecoms about $4 billion to expand their networks, with which they did nothing. Canada did other stupid things, such as put a program in place to increase rural broadband in 2019, which is really late to the game, or, in Manitoba, where I live, just give a fiber network laid by a government-owned utility to a local ISP.

      • TerkErJerbs@lemm.ee
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        1 month ago

        Research Xplore-net and circle back to this. The feds poured all kinds of subsidies into this shitty company and it’s never been more than a joke among anyone who’s ever had to use it. ETA look up hundreds (and thousands that didn’t post to the internet) cases like this one where Xplore-net users bailed en masse for Starlink as soon as possible and got fucked around for months with their cancellation and billing workflows.

        I can’t find it but I’m reasonably sure I remember Xplore-net asking for a bailout or subsidy funding due to their customers fleeing around lockdowns. I’ll post it if I can find it.

        ETA #2 lol Canadian Broadband Firm Xplore In Talks to Receive Fresh Financing

      • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Naa we gave nearly a trillion to the telcoms. The point stands that while musk is a piece of shit, he did something that govs and other private companies didn’t.

        • Auli@lemmy.ca
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          1 month ago

          Because for some reason America likes private companies doing everything now. They are so dependent on Musk one single citizen it’s ridiculous, and a national security threat.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            We’ve been in that loop for a while. The problem is our gov isn’t exactly great at providing shit for the citizens because it’s filled with the same people who run the private industries. Which in turn just makes people less trusting of our gov. It’s a shit cycle

      • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Geosync does not work for anything other than we browsing were latency doesn’t matter. You can’t use it to work from home and its not technically broadband…so try again.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Nobody claimed it’s broadband. And nobody claimed they need broadband up there. Nobody is trying to remote into their tech job from the Arctic Circle.

          Take your straw men home.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            The fuck are you talking about…rural Canada is not the fucking artic circle…jesus you’re dense, do you think people who live there don’t deserve proper Internet? Do you think people who live there can’t be tech workers or people who would remote into a job?

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Remote tech workers aren’t living in a place without broadband, and I seriously doubt they’re moving to villages so remote they get supply planes, as weather allows. And yes the area includes the Arctic Circle. Remote workers are living in a medium sized town with a fiber backbone connection because their job already depends on it. They aren’t pining away at Cambridge Bay wishing someone would give them broadband internet.

              Large areas of the world are fine without broadband internet. Especially when the method of delivery is to smother LEO with disposable satellites. Trying to extend the western standard of living to every corner of the world instead of ameliorating the standard is a major driver of climate change. Some things just don’t work in remote areas.

              • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                I’ll repaste the same here since you and another basically said the same thing “fuck poor people and rural people and minorities” right?

                Lol what a joke, so you’re saying people in rural areas don’t deserve Internet lol fuck those kids who want to learn, and fuck those people who live out there and don’t have the means to live in an expensive city, they should enjoy their shitty connections or no connections at all.

                You’re hilarious

                • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Geosync Satellite Internet works fine for learning, they still have school and libraries. Geosync has worked for decades, so the question isn’t should we screw them over. It’s should we upgrade, given the price?

                  There’s plenty of other ways to bring services to these very remote areas and raise their standard of living. Just because one thing is held back does not mean nobody cares about them. It means we’re being responsible with our resources and environment.

                  And it’s especially important to question these things whenever people start talking about, “for the kids!”

                  • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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                    1 month ago

                    Geosync Satellite Internet works fine for learning, they still have school and libraries. Geosync has worked for decades, so the question isn’t should we screw them over. It’s should we upgrade, given the price?

                    No it does not, you cannot do any sort of voip learning with it.

                    There’s plenty of other ways to bring services to these very remote areas and raise their standard of living. Just because one thing is held back does not mean nobody cares about them. It means we’re being responsible with our resources and environment.

                    Yea they tried that and it failed…

                    And it’s especially important to question these things whenever people start talking about, “for the kids!”

                    I’m not even going there with you.

              • Auli@lemmy.ca
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                1 month ago

                Cambridge bay might be a bad example the research facility is there so imagine that has high speed internet.

                • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  You’d be surprised. Sometimes it’s better to just clone and send the hard drive. There’s always the old half joke about the bandwidth of a station wagon moving a bunch of drives down the interstate.

            • Ehrm, no to both questions? You live in rural fucking Canada. Connectivity will be shit, that’s a given. If you choose a job that relies on that, you should move to where you can actually work.

              Fast internet is a privilege, not something people “deserve”. Fucking up LEO so people can stream or Netflix or whatever is absolutely not worth it, and imo the practice should be banned. Starlink has been disastrous for astronomy already. Put fiber in if it’s so important, expensive but hey, people “deserve” it right?

              • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Lol what a joke, so you’re saying people in rural areas don’t deserve Internet lol fuck those kids who want to learn, and fuck those people who live out there and don’t have the means to live in an expensive city lol

                You’re hilarious

                • Not living in an expensive city doesn’t equate to living in extremely remote areas. If you choose to live in an area with very few services, then don’t expect the rest of the world to bend over backwards to provide those for you at their expense. The sheer entitlement is hilarious.

                  Besides, there’s still internet, just not fast broadband.

                  • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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                    1 month ago

                    That’s hilarious, so you think people in developing countries should just get fucked as well then?

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                He’s switched from remote workers to kids. He’s just trying to gin up outrage now.

    • alsimoneau@lemmy.ca
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      1 month ago

      Yes. Burning debris in the upper atmosphere has unknown effets on the environment, plus the exploitation of rare earth metal that cannot be recycled and the energy expenditure. Musk want to burn more satellites per year than what we ever launched prior to this, and every other greedy company wants to follow suit with their own junk.

      • AnotherDirtyAnglo@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        Burning debris in the upper atmosphere has unknown effets on the environment,

        Man, just wait until you find out about naturally occurring meteors… They’re loaded with metal and are vaporized in the upper atmosphere 24x7x365… and have been doing so for pretty much all of the 4 billion years the planet has been around.

      • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        The paper someone links to, shows that meteoroids already dump more than 11.7k metric tons into the atmosphere every year. We know what effects it has.