I installed a few different distros, landed on Cinnamon Mint. I’m not a tech dummy, but I feel I’m in over my head.
I installed Docker in the terminal (two things I’m not familiar with) but I can’t find it anywhere. Googled some stuff, tried to run stuff, and… I dunno.
I’m TRYING to learn docker so I can set up audiobookshelf and Sonarr with Sabnzbd.
Once it’s installed in the terminal, how the hell do I find docker so I can start playing with it?
Is there a Linux for people who are deeply entrenched in how Windows works? I’m not above googling command lines that I can copy and paste but I’ve spent HOURS trying to figure this out and have gotten no where…
Thanks! Sorry if this is the wrong place for this
EDIT : holy moly. I posted this and went to bed. Didn’t quite realize the hornets nest I was going to kick. THANK YOU to everyone who has and is about to comment. It tells you how much traction I usually get because I usually answer every response on lemmy and the former. For this one I don’t think I’ll be able to do it.
I’ve got a few little ones so time to sit and work on this is tough (thus 5h last night after they were in bed) but I’m going to start picking at all your suggestions (and anyone else who contributes as well)
Thank you so much everyone! I think windows has taught me to be very visually reliant and yelling into the abyss that is the terminal is a whole different beast - but I’m willing to give it a go!
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I think it will be easier to use docker compose with a premade docker compose file.
Create a new directory cd into it and then nano docker-compose.yaml. For instance, here is a docker compose I found one the audio bookshelf website:
version: "3.7" services: audiobookshelf: image: ghcr.io/advplyr/audiobookshelf:latest ports: - 13378:80 volumes: - </path/to/audiobooks>:/audiobooks - </path/to/podcasts>:/podcasts - </path/to/config>:/config - </path/to/metadata>:/metadata
I remember being so lost in the dark when starting docker. There’s 2 main approaches to launching docker containers. One is with CLI arguments and one is from a docker-compose.yml file.
I highly recommend the latter.
Try going to chatGPT and ask it to write a docker compose file for whatever service you’re trying to stand up.
There’s no point in asking ChatGPT for a generic compose, most docker images will recommend a compose that’s specifically written for them.
It is a much better way to run volatile server apps that are changing at breakneck speed.
Docker can be really confusing, but IMO being able to add and remove software without having changes made throughout your system is well worth the effort.
Docker’s hard. I never really got my head around it. I used “Swizzin Community Edition” to setup my media server. It was really easy compared to Docker-based solutions.
Been there, now I have over 12 containers running h24 on an old spare laptop with everything exposed via traefik (reverse proxy), self-signed CA, local DNS… what a ride ^^'.
The best advice and thats what helped me to get going, is to look/follow some youtube videos about docker and how to expose your first container locally, so you get the general gist on how it works.
2 years ago, NetworkChuck introduced me to docker container. Not saying he’s the best youtuber to get you into docker and learning and stuff, but it’s a GOOD starting point :).
There is also Christian Lempa, Tech world with nana, who also will you give you some good pointer with docker and docker compose.
Good luck !
Man, good luck. Is there no other way you can accomplish that without Docker. I’ve been using Linux for years and I still don’t know how to set up a docker container lol
- Docker is not needed, I’ve had lots of self hosted things for years before using docker.
- Docker is not that hard, you just need to learn it like anything else, once upon a time going to a webpage was an unknown thing to all of us, yet now it’s a daily thing.
Docker is not needed for this, it just helps keep things clean
You’re right. The comments here have been really weird and kinda missed the whole point of OP’s post.
Is there a Linux for people who are deeply entrenched in how Windows works
How Windows works is different I think?
I’m not above googling command lines that I can copy and paste but I’ve spent HOURS trying to figure this out and have gotten no where…
You don’t need.
I heard you are using a debian-based distro, can you read the man pages for apt?
Then use apt to find docker, and get it.
Once it’s installed in the terminal, how the hell do I find docker so I can start playing with it?
It is not installed in the terminal. It is installed on the system, ON DISK!
docker should be installed on /usr/bin. It is on PATH. Type docker and see what happen. If not, try searching on /usr/bin (on BSDs third party software are separated from base, so docker should be installed on /usr/local/bin)
And the docker service should be started, if not. Use the fucking systemctl to start it. The service name should be docker, if I recall correctly
Once it’s installed in the terminal, how the hell do I find docker so I can start playing with it?
Type
docker
in the terminal, it’s a CLI application.But it sounds like you might want to install Docker Desktop, which does give you a GUI to use.
Linux is a slightly different way of thinking. There are any number of ways that you can solve any problem you have. In Windows there are usually only one or two that work. This is largely a result of the hacker mentality from which linux and Unix came from. “If you don’t like how it works, rewrite it your way” and “Read the F***ing Manual” were frequent refrains when I started playing with linux.
Mint is a fine distro which is based off of Ubuntu, if I remember correctly. Most documentation that applies to Ubuntu will also apply to you.
Not sure what exactly you installed, but I’m guessing that you did something along the lines of
sudo apt-get install docker
.If you did that without doing anything ahead of time, what you probably got was a slightly out of date version of docker only from Mint’s repositories. Follow the instructions here to uninstall whatever you installed and install docker from docker’s own repositories.
The Docker Desktop that you may be used to from Windows is available for linux, however it is not part of the default install usually. You might look at this documentation.
I don’t use it, as I prefer ctop combined with docker-compose.
Towards that end, here is my
docker-compose.yaml
for my instance of Audiobookshelf. I have it connected to my Tailscale tailnet, but if you comment out the tailscale service stuff and uncomment the port section in the audiobookshelf service, you can run it directly. Assuming your not making any changes,Create a directory somewhere,
mkdir ~/docker
mkdir ~/docker/audiobookshelf
This creates a directory in your home directory called docker and then a directory within that one called audiobookshelf. Now we want to enter that directory.
cd ~/docker/audiobookshelf
Then create your docker compose file
touch docker-compose.yaml
You can edit this file with whatever text editor you like, but I prefer micro which you may not have installed.
micro docker-compose.yaml
and then paste the contents into the file and change whatever setting you need to for your system. At a minimum you will need to change the volumes section so that the podcast and audiobook paths point to the correct location on your system. it follows the format
<system path>:<container path>
.Once you’ve made all the needed changes, save and exit the editor and start the the instance by typing
sudo docker compose up -d
Now, add the service directly to your tailnet by opening a shell in the tailscale container
sudo docker exec -it audiobookshelf-tailscale /bin/sh
and then typing
tailscale up
copy the link it gives you into your browser to authenticate the instance. Assuming that neither you or I made any typos you should now be able to access audiobookshelf from http://books If you chose to comment out all the tailscale stuff you would find it at http://localhost:13378
docker-compose.yaml
version: "3.7" services: tailscale: container_name: audiobookshelf-tailscale hostname: books # This will become the tailscale device name image: ghcr.io/tailscale/tailscale:latest volumes: - "./tailscale_var_lib:/var/lib" # State data will be stored in this directory - "/dev/net/tun:/dev/net/tun" # Required for tailscale to work cap_add: # Required for tailscale to work - net_admin - sys_module command: tailscaled restart: unless-stopped audiobookshelf: container_name: audiobookshelf image: ghcr.io/advplyr/audiobookshelf:latest restart: unless-stopped # ports: # Not needed due to tailscale # - 13378:80 volumes: - '/mnt/nas/old_media_server/media/books/Audio Books:/audiobooks' # This line has quotes because there is a space that needed to be escaped. - /mnt/nas/old_media_server/media/podcasts:/podcasts # See, no quotes needed here, better to have them though. - /opt/audiobookshelf/config:/config # I store my docker services in the /opt directory. You may want to change this to './config' and './metadata' while your playing around - /opt/audiobookshelf/metadata:/metadata network_mode: service:tailscale # This line tells the audiobookshelf container to send all traffic to tailscale container
I’ve left my docker-compose file as-is so you can see how it works in my setup.
👆
And that is why Linux mass adoption is never coming.
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This is a discussion about Docker, which is a complex terminal-based containerization system. This is not a program that is typically used by the average user. Docker’s complexity does not imply that Linux requires this kind of set up to use as a normal desktop. This is usually server software. Docker is also available on Windows and MacOS, and is partnered with Microsoft (you know, the company that makes Windows? The desktop OS with the highest market share?). Are you going to complain about how Windows will never reach mass adoption because users are able to install complex tools that require a steep learning curve to use? You can install Docker on Windows and use the same commands and configs, so do you believe that Windows suffers this same problem?
Before you point out the start of that comment with the “Linux mentality” stuff, while some of that is certainly true, you can now do everything an average user needs to do in an intuitive GUI, just like Windows (better in many cases, actually). Half the listed commands (making directories and files) can be done in the file manager just like Windows, normal apps can be managed in app stores, and the rest of it is docker specific, which is (again), server-oriented software. I’m not a fan of their mentality about how things work in Linux, because it’s very much an old mentality that doesn’t account for the immense amount of change that has happened in the past decade to make Linux more accessible.
I don’t understand why people come to the Linux communities to complain that Linux is “too hard” or “too complex” to be usable. If you don’t have an actual interest in Linux, find another community. If you want a simple experience, use a simple distro that’s meant to be easy to use, and use software that is easy to use.
It’s not as difficult as the length of my comment implies, and doing it in the terminal simplifies the explanation quite a bit.
The average user though might never need to use the terminal. Most of what they want can be done in the browser.
As for Linux mass adoption, that happened years ago. Just nobody noticed. Android, Chromebook, Steam Deck are all Linux based and MacOS (BSD derived) is a close relative. And Microsoft has even made it possible to run linux command line programs in Windows, with some caveats, using WSL. And that’s not counting the majority of servers, networking gear and space craft running linux or unix.
“They’re all close relatives”
on which the experience has been tuned to make them as user friendly as possible to the point where they have nothing in common with desktop Linux from an average user perspective.
And blackbox has nothing in common with KDE? /s
Im off for bed. Night.
Getting this setup on Windows would be even harder because it would involve installing docker manually or setting up WSL and following these steps. What OP is trying to do is a complex thing that most people don’t need, that would be the same as saying Windows is hard because setting up a VM with hardware passthrough is difficult on Windows, completely missing the point that that is a complex thing to do and that it’s complex on any other OS as well.
Yeah but the difference is that even for simple things, Linux instructions look like what was posted by the person I replied to.
Being a person who replies to lots of new users questions I strongly disagree. 99% of the questions come from a Windows mindset, so it requires some deconstruction of the way the person is thinking, have you noticed how very few Mac users ask beginner questions on Linux forums?
There’s a big difference between something is different and someone is used to doing the things differently, driving on the left or right is just as difficult, bit if you’ve driven all of your life one way switching up can be difficult. Just like that a lot of Linux concepts are different from what people are used to if they come from a Windows background, but the same is true the other way around. As someone who’s been using Linux for decades I find windows weird and convoluted, but I know that this is just my perception, and that someone who’s using it daily is used to that.
Edit: if you’re going to reply to this, mind providing an example of something you think is easy on Windows but hard on Linux?
Just to be clear, I agree with you practically 100%, and you can see my response to this person in the same thread as well, but I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. I’ll give you a few examples of things that are easier on Windows (and most also are easier on MacOS) than they are on Linux (or at least some distros depending on which you pick):
- Using proprietary multimedia codecs (Fedora)
- Installing Nvidia drivers that have the capability of auto-updating (any distro that doesn’t have a GUI for driver downloads)
- Installation (most people simply use the pre-installed OS and never reinstall or install anything new)
- Game compatibility (Linux gaming is great, but there are still major titles not supported)
- Accessing firmware settings and profiles for laptops while booted (like Armoury Crate for Asus laptops (yes, I know about rog-control-center and asusctl, but those don’t work for all devices, and are harder to set up))
There are probably plenty more, and there are things that are easier on Linux. But again, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. Each of those examples are less intuitive to complete on Linux (or at least some distros) than they are in Windows. As someone who has been using Linux for a decade, I don’t think that they are all hard, but many are also less intuitive in Linux than MacOS, just to address your first point. When you have to start adding PPAs/repos to get specific things, I’d argue that’s objectively less intuitive than the alternatives in other operating systems, and not merely a different way of thinking. In many cases though, for most things, there are intuitive solutions that exist in Linux. There are plenty of cases where someone overcomplicates something they want to do in Linux by using a Windows mindset, so I still agree with you there. I just think it’s a little more nuanced than you seemed to imply.
I had written a more thorough response, but the app crashed and I lost it. Sorry of this one sounds a bit harsh, I do mostly agree with you, I just think that the examples you’ve chosen are bad because they’re either distro specific (so not a Linux problem but a problem with that distro), or not Linux problems (i.e. there’s nothing Linux can do about it because the problem doesn’t lie on Linux but elsewhere)
Using proprietary multimedia codecs (Fedora)
Distro specific. It should be just like installing anything else, and it is for some distros, certainty for the ones I’ve been using.
Installing Nvidia drivers that have the capability of auto-updating (any distro that doesn’t have a GUI for driver downloads)
Distro specific, I’ve had NVIDIA drivers auto-updating for the past 15 years or so, long before Windows had that same capabilities. And it updates with my regular system update, no need to use any special GUI for it.
Installation (most people simply use the pre-installed OS and never reinstall or install anything new)
Not Linux problem. Also, while I can see the argument that’s easier to use what’s already installed, that tells you nothing of how easy one thing is in comparison to the other. If computers came with the most convolutedly complex and unusable crap of an OS, full of bloatware and spyware pre-installed people would still use it. Not to mention that the Linux installation process was much easier than Windows for the longest time (until windows finally implemented automatic driver installation)
Game compatibility (Linux gaming is great, but there are still major titles not supported)
Not Linux problem. Although this is something to bear in mind while choosing your OS, it’s the companies that make games that are at fault here, there’s nothing Linux can do to remedy this situation, so it’s unfair to judge it for it. That’s like saying Windows is harder to use because running docker containers in it is impossible without some virtualisation, while this is something to consider when deciding what OS will you use to self-host, it’s not per-se a reason why Windows is more difficult to use.
Accessing firmware settings and profiles for laptops while booted (like Armoury Crate for Asus laptops (yes, I know about rog-control-center and asusctl, but those don’t work for all devices, and are harder to set up))
Same as above.
Like I said, I agree with lots of what you said, and some of those are thing to keep in mind when choosing an OS, but those are not good arguments as for which OS is simpler than the other. The Linux way to do most of them is using the package manager, and that’s much simpler than searching the internet for the correct download.
The greatest contribution of Nvidia to FOSS had been to keep many such thinking people hostage to proprietary solutions and out of our visibility.
You know, those that refuse to learn anything new, refuse to read documents, believe that by controlling input/output through terminal is inferior to gui-blindness.
No they don’t lol
Because Docker, a complex program most users will never use, has a long install process?
If I posted the long setup instructions for it on Windows, would you tell me Windows mass adoption is never coming?
Because instructions like these are just standard procedure for Linux.
Except, no they’re not. Not anymore.
Apt install docker.io
docker run -d -p 8000:8000 -p 9443:9443 --name portainer --restart=always -v /var/run/docker.sock:/var/run/docker.sock -v portainer_data:/data portainer/portainer-ce:latest
Go to IP:8000 and now you can build docker compose stacks. A far easier way to learn docker.
OP this is the answer but Ill provide simple steps in case this is not clear enough:
- Install docker
- Install docker-compose
- Install portainer (command from the post above)
- open Portainer GUI in browser using IP:8000 (from here you can do everything in GUI)
- go to stacks and create a new stack
- edit docker-compose for audiobookshelf - modify folder paths for volumes (example - change
./audiobooks:/audiobooks
to/path/to/folder:/audiobooks
) - paste that in stack and hit deploy
- go to IP:13378 to open Audiobookshelf GUI
- enjoy
one of my portainer instances completely broke a few months ago because of a failed db migration after an update. i’ve been using dockge ever since and i’m happy with it. it stores every stack you deploy as a docker-compose file on your regular filesystem, so if it ever breaks you can just edit the files instead
Oh that is nice. Yeah I tend not to use portainer nowadays but when I was learning docker it was a godsend. I’ll look into dockge though :)
Docker is one of the container technologies
Containers vs Images
This is a very simplified explanation, which hopefully clears up for you. As with all simplifications, they aren’t entirely correct.
Containers put processes, files, and networking into a space where they are secluded from the rest. You main OS is called the host and the container is called the guest. You can selectively share resources with the guest. To use an analogy, if you house were the computer with linux, if you took a room, put tools and resources for those tools into it, put workers into it, got them to start working and locked the door, they’d be contained in the room, unable to break out. If you want to give workers access to resources, you either a window, a corridor, or even a door depending on much access you want to give them.
Containers are created from an image. Think of it as the tools, resources, and configuration required every time you create a room in your house for workers to do a job. The woodworkers will need different tools and resources than say metalworkers.
Most images are stored on DockerHub. So when you do
docker pull linuxserver/sonarr
you download the image. When you dodocker run linuxserver/sonarr
you create a container from an image.Installation
You’re on Cinnamon Mint which is linux distribution derived from another linux distribution called debian. You have to follow the installation instructions. Everything is there. If something doesn’t work, it’s most likely because you skipped a step. The most important ones are the post-installation steps:
- Adding your user to the docker group
- Logging out and back in (or simply restarting)
Those are the most commonly missed steps. I’ve fallen for this trap too!
Local help
To use linux, you need to learn about ways to help yourself or find help. On linux, most well-written programs print a help. Simply running the command without any arguments most often output a help text --> running
docker
does so. If they don’t, then the--help
flag often does -->docker --help
. The shorthand is-h
-->docker -h
.Some commands have sub commands e.g
docker run
,docker image
,docker ps
, … . Those subcommands also take flags of which-h
and--help
are available.The help output is often not extensive and programs often have a manual. To access it the command is
man
-->man find
will output the manual for thefind
command. Docker doesn’t have a local manual but an online one.For clarification when running a command there are different ways to interpret the text after the command:
Flags/Options
These are named parameters to the command. Some do not take input like
-h
and--help
which are called flags. Some do like--file /etc/passwd
and are often called options.Arguments
These are unnamed parameters and each command interprets them differently.
echo "hello world"
-->echo
is the command and"hello world"
is the argument. Some commands can take multiple argumentsRunning containers
Imperatively
As described above
docker run linuxserver/sonarr
runs an image in a container. However, it runs in the foreground (as opposed to the background in what is most often called a “daemon”). Starting in the foreground is most likely not how you want to run things as that means if you close your terminal, you end the process too. To run something in the background, you usedocker run --detatch linuxserver/sonarr
.You can pass options like
-v
or--volume
to make a file or folder from your host system available in the guest e.g-v /path/on/host:/tmp/path/in/guest
. Or-p
/--port
to forward a host port to a guest port e.g-p 8080:80
. That means if you access port8080
on your host, the traffic will be forwarded to port80
in the guest.These are imperatives as in you command the computer to do a specific action. Run that docker image, stop that docker container, restart these containers, start a container with this port forward and that volume with this user …
Declaratively
If you don’t want to keep typing the same commands, you can declare everything about your containers up front. Their volumes, ports, environment variables, which image is used, which network card/interface they have access to, which other network they share with other containers, and so on.
This is done with
docker-compose
ordocker compose
for newer docker versions (not all operating systems have the new docker version).This already a long text, so if you want to know more, the best resource is the docker compose manual and the compose file reference.
Hopefully this helped with the basics and understanding what you’re doing. There are probably great video resources out there that explain it more didactically than I do with steps you can follow along.
Good luck!
You main OS is called the host and the container is called the guest
The word “guest” is generally used for virtual machines, not containers.
Can containers boot on their own? Then they are hosts, if not they are guests.
Unless there is some kind of mutual 50/50 cohabitation of userspace with two different pid1s
pid 1 left pid 1 right
If you’re not planning to actually learn Docker, use an LLM AI to help you out. I just tried the following prompt in Gemini “generate docker-compose.yml that runs audiobookshelf and Sonarr with Sabnzbd” and it generated something that looks reasonable. Then you can follow it up with prompts like “how do I auto start it on linux?” and it will generate the systemd unit, and also tell you what commands to run.
I can at least assure you that as a developer, docker is annoying to set up and their documentation is confusing.
Most things in Linux are easier to set up but sometimes installing things happens to be harder than it should be and docker is one of them.
You should keep in mind that compared to other OSs, a lot of Linux software is CLI only, so they won’t always show up in the applications list and you’ll need to check if you have it in a terminal.
podman is better but thats just my opinion btw
OP is having trouble with the oldest and most highly documented container system in existence. I don’t think throwing the almost invisible podman into the mix would help anything in the least.