I’ve been an IT professional for 20 years now, but I’ve mainly dealt with Windows. I’ve worked with Linux servers through out the years, but never had Linux as a daily driver. And I decided it was time to change. I only had 2 requirements. One, I need to be able to use my Nvidia 3080 ti for local LLM and I need to be able to RDP with multiple screens to my work laptop running Windows 10.
My hope was to be able to get this all working and create some articles on how I did it to hopefully inspire/guide others. Unfortunately, I was not successful.
I started out with Ubuntu 22.04 and I could not get the live CD to boot. After some searching, I figured out I had to go in a turn off ACPI in boot loader. After that I was able to install Ubuntu side by side with Windows 11, but the boot loader errored out at the end of the install and Ubuntu would not boot.
Okay, back into Windows to download the boot loader fixer and boot to that. Alright, I’m finally able to get into Ubuntu, but I only have 1 of my 4 monitors working. Install the NVIDIA-SMI and reboot. All my monitors work now, but my network card is now broken.
Follow instructions on my phone to reinstall the linux-modules-extra package. Back into Windows to download that because, you know, no network connections. Reinstall the package, it doesn’t work. Go into advanced recovery, try restoring packages, nothing is working. I can either get my monitors to work or my network card. Never both at the same time.
I give up and decide it’s time to try out Fedora. The install process is much smoother. I boot up 3 of 4 monitors work. I find a great post on installing Nvidia drivers and CUDA. After doing that and rebooting, I have all 4 monitors and networking, woohoo!
Now, let’s test RDP. Install FreeRDP run with /multimon, and the screen for each remote window is shifted 1/3 of the way to the left. Strange. Do a little looking online, find an Issue on GitHub about how it is based on the primary monitor. Long story short, I can’t use multiple monitor RDP because I have different resolution monitors and they are stacked 2x2 instead of all in a row. Trust me I tried every combination I could think of.
Someone suggested using the nightly build because they have been working on this issue. Okay, I try that out and it fails to install because of a missing dependency. Apparently, there is a pull request from December to fix this on Fedora installs, but it hasn’t been merged. So, I would need to compile that specific branch myself.
At this point, I’m just so sick of every little thing being a huge struggle, I reboot and go back into Windows. I still have Fedora on there, but who would have thought something that sounds as simple as wanting to RDP across 4 monitors would be so damn difficult.
I’m not saying any of this to bag on Linux. It’s more of a discussion topic on, yes, I agree that there needs to be more adoption on Linux, but if someone with 20 years of IT experience gets this feed up with it, imagine how your average user would feel.
Of course if anyone has any recommendation on getting my RDP working, I’m all ears on that too.
Bummer! Sounds like a pain in the ass.
I wish I had a suggestion for you, but I only use two monitors and all of my work is ssh, no RDP needed.
I am a long time Linux user but even I am struggling recently as I have finally started working towards migrating my last windows machine ( strictly for gaming ) over to Linux with a windows partition for the one off chance I need to play on windows still. Currently only 1.5 of my monitors work ( my left monitor top half is black. ) It is fine in post, bios and windows but not in my fedora distro. Also, my performance tanked even though I can see my GPU is working as intended. My high refresh monitor is also not playing nice and ghosting all over the place, unlike in windows where there is only standard tearing when there is a frame rate mismatch.
Fortunately for me, I like tinkering and solving these issues, but I can imagine for someone wanting to avoid messing with their equipment it is probably more of a headache than a challenge. But I have personally always been of the mindset of using the tool that works best for you, with the exception of any moral considerations you may have. (I am just not a fan of windows or apple as a company.)
Good luck with your issue and I hope you find a resolution, but if not, I would just use what works.
There are two different RDP implementations in Linux: freerdp (which is the underlying library for remmina as well) and rdesktop. Each has its own set of bugs. No idea if rdesktop offers better support for what you want to do—I use it, but I only have single-monitor setups at both ends. (It has an annoying bug that can make it require multiple attempts to establish a connection, though.)
Just use Arch.
I like Arch, but a first-time install of Arch for a beginner who doesn’t have a lot of patience for reading documentation and troubleshooting is not good advice.
He said he’s an IT professional for 20 years. That’s like the epitome of patience for reading documentations and troubleshooting
The bigger problem when running Arch is that there’s a very high gap between “the bootloader makes the kernel run” and “functional desktop system”. The installation guide will get you to the first one. For someone who’s used to Windows, even as an IT pro, learning Arch is a firehose that’s hard to drink from.
Once you’ve pacstrap’d and set up a user you reboot and start your new OS. Except you have no internet because you didn’t know you had to install dhcpcd. Fine, install that–except your user isn’t in sudoers, so you have to figure out how to get back to being root to edit the sudoers file. With visudo. Ten minutes later you’ve figured out how to find and edit the right line. Another ten to get out of vi. Then once that’s sorted you’re sitting at a terminal you don’t know any commands for with no idea how to get to a graphical environment.
You look on your phone and find a recommendation for XFCE4 as a lightweight and simple DE. Great, install that. Try to launch it, and…a bunch of arcane errors. Another hour of troubleshooting and you learn that you missed xorg, which for some reason isn’t a dependency of XFCE4. O…kay. You don’t want to have to launch it every time you boot, so you go digging and find out you need a desktop manager. Takes some time, but you finally install one and enable the service in systemd, which you have to do manually for some reason.
Finally you get to a graphical environment, and…the fonts are all weird, and unicode symbols are just placeholders. Wait, fonts. You have to install fonts. More research, but you get there. Finally you launch a browser and are delighted to find something familiar. It all works the same. Great! Let’s watch a video to make sure playback is working, and…no sound.
Okay, more research, and turns out you missed pulseaudio. Install that, start the daemon aaaand…no audio. Fine, how do you check the audio level? Ah, there’s an XFCE4 plugin for pulseaudio. Find that, install it, put it on your panel, click it and…pavucontrol isn’t installed. Whatever that is. Okay, install it and try again. Great! So, for some reason the default audio level when you install is 0. Turn that up and you finally hear sound! Hours after starting the process.
And every. little. thing. is like that. For weeks. Especially with Nvidia, and especially if you make the mistake of following a recent guide that shunts you into a Wayland environment. Every time you need to do something there are 20 options, five of which are well-documented but deprecated, the first three you try don’t work for reasons you don’t understand, then you finally find something that works well enough. Rinse, repeat, for every little thing.
And this is coming from a complete Arch stan. I love Arch. It’s my only distro these days. I’m on Hyprland, my neovim is tricked out, everything is slick, responsive, just takes a couple keystrokes to accomplish anything I want to do, and I have everything set up exactly how I want it. It took a long time to get there, though, and I’ve been using Linux off and on for over 20 years, maining it for the last 10.
With arch based flavored desktop installers (arco endeavour manjaro …) you get some GBs of stuff that is probably going to ask 1-2GB of upgrades, and then you end up dumping half the crap they came with.
On one you start from bottom up, the rest you start from top towards the ?bottom?.
You only learn when you start with the least needed to boot a system, have net access, and a pkg.mngr.
Some people learn that way, but most don’t. It’s usually better to start with a working environment and work on one thing at a time until you learn enough that you’re ready to dig down another layer. Start with little mysteries and learn the structure of things and how to troubleshoot before jumping in the deep end. Having a system that’s hopelessly broken and you don’t know why or how to fix it is just likely to turn people away from Linux entirely. People don’t win extra points for suffering needlessly.
Yeah, in Windows. Windows and Arch are two completely different beasts.
I get the sentiment (Arch has provided the least friction for me when I needed something niche/specific) but putting OP on Arch is still pushing them into the deep end IMO. If OP is open to trying Arch however, I’d throw out a recommendation for EndeavourOS which is just a pre-made Arch setup.
What a fantastically shit idea for a beginner.
For RDP, i use Remmina, no idea if it will do what you want for your weird monitor layout, but it is a well featured RDP client.
I would say that your experience is unusual, even with nvidia. Ive always used nvidia, and its generally been a significantly smoother experience.
I’ve used Remmina for years on Linux when administrating Windows Machines. I don’t think I’ve ever had a single problem with it. Love that program.
I tried Remmina and it wasn’t working either. I couldn’t even get it to connect using the same settings as RDP free.
I’ve never had an issue with Remmina. Did you verify you had a working connection between your device and the server? (Silly question but its good to start at the basics)
Did you try just a basic connection? Or is your target box using Network Level Authentication? (I’ve heard most Linux clients don’t play well with this)
Same as you, in IT forever, …I switched, and I’m never going back. It’s fast, and it’s brought the joy back for me. Nvidia needs to do better, but that was the only difficulty I had.
Sorry to hear about that mess.
I posted here https://lemmy.nz/comment/1784981 a while back about what I went through with the Nvidia driver on Linux.
From what I can tell, people who think Linux works fine on Nvidia probably only have one monitor or maybe two that happen to be the same model ( with unique EDID serials FWIW ). My experience with a whole bunch of mixed monitors / refresh rates was absolutely awful.
If you happen to give it another go, get yourself an AMD card, perhaps you can carry on using the Nvidia card for the language modelling, just don’t plug your monitors into it.
I’ve been extremely happy with Linuxmint the past 2-3 yrs. However I have a higher end AMD card. 97% of games play great under Proton with steam. I use Rustdesk to remote into other Linux machines as well as windows OS servers/desktops even with multiple screens and it works without issue. Just my $0.02 and I know it’s heavily Ubuntu based but the stability and usability as a daily driver, also working as an IT professional has been great.
Last piece, it’s been a rare occurrence but if I’m messing around using bleeding edge graphics drivers or “playing with fire” messing with deeper system configs, drivers, etc and shit the bed I have had 100% success using TIMESHIFT to completely restore my OS back to its previous state with zero data/config loss or issues. You just need to have the discipline to remember to take a backup before you know you’re going to be potentially blowing something out. But, that said, it fully restores everything. I have a 18TB external USB I just use for that and it doesn’t even take long either, restoring a 2 & 4TB SSD system that’s pretty loaded up with data.
Its sad but linux is still a second class citizen. Nvidea drivers have improved greatly over the years, but it can be still flaky especially newer ones.
Multi moniter support too, it has a history troubled with challenges. Its much much better than it used to be but sometimes there are setups and usecases which have problems. It used to be multiple monitors, just having them as a desktop, was impossible. Nowaday I can daily drive Linux and expect to have a good desktop experience across multiple monitors.
Mindyou, every windows update its a dieroll what breaks for my work surface labtop. Often my display or dock behaviour breaks or my bluetooth, or my networking. Not to excuse the bugs in linux, but to show that even MS on their own hardware have bugs like that. Pcs are hard and even MS can’t do it flawlessly.
What you describe as simple multimonitor RDP might actually be a very complex task from a technology and display standpoint.
That being said, it totally sucks having a usecase and finding out that for you have problems getting there. I agree that Linux still has major hurdles for general adoption, (although again, it is so much better than it used to be). Look at it this way: if desktop linux had the same amount of money and development time thrown at it as Windows or MacOS, we’d have a very different experience.
As for tips. I recommend to dualboot. Use MS for your usecases that are not a good experience and use Linux for the other things. Keep checking in with the multiple RDP tech/workflow to see if it works. I did the same thing for years. The only reason I used windows was my games. For other things I used Linux and learned my way around the desktop while doing that. Eventually Proton came along and I could switch entirely.
If you go back a bit further, multi monitor support was just fine. Our office in about 2002 was full of folks running dual ( 19 inch tube! ) monitors running off matrox g400’s with xinerama on redhat 6.2 ( might have been 7.0 ). I can’t recall that being much trouble at all.
There were even a bunch of good years of the proprietry nvidia drivers, the poor quality is something that I’ve only really noticed in the last three or so years.
Weak
if someone with 20 years of IT experience gets this feed up with it, imagine how your average user would feel.
The average user just wants to open up a browser to use tiktok, instagram, gmail, and whatever else it is people use these days. Maybe edit a few documents and look at local pictures? The average user isn’t going to use RDP or train an LLM.
As others have said: NVIDIA sucks for linux. They have sucked for linux for more than a decade (snippet). And RDP: try Remmina.
Also dualbooting is so-so. Windows likes to mess up the bootloader for no reason during updates. If you switch, it’s best to go full linux or try first from a VM.
Even the average user will sometimes need non-average features.
Maybe they want to print a document and have an old HP printer laying somewhere.
Maybe they want to try this AI filter thingy that is such a fad on Tiktok
Maybe they need to digitally sign a document, or log in using their card reader and government ID to do their taxes.
If even one of those don’t work how they should immediately out of the box, then Linux is not for the average user.
Maybe they want to print a document and have an old HP printer laying somewhere.
Linux is probably your best bet actually.
Maybe they want to try this AI filter thingy that is such a fad on Tiktok
Browsers work on linux
Maybe they need to digitally sign a document, or log in using their card reader and government ID to do their taxes.
All works on linux, most likely even works through the browser (which is what I’ve been doing).
If even one of those don’t work how they should immediately out of the box, then Linux is not for the average user.
And they work “out of the box” on windows? You have to go to a download page, to get the right driver, ensure you have the right windows version and service pack (those are still a thing right?), restart your computer and hope it worked. Hey, maybe there’s even some new fangled “security measure” that installs a rootkit that requires you to go into your BIOS to activate a feature in order for it to work.
Since it’s not “out of the box”, maybe windows should also be canned, right?
Did you just CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 your comment?
Looks like it, doesn’t it?
Windows admin here. It was immediately clear to me how this would end:
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someone proficient in windows goes back to being a dumb newbie is gonna be frustrating as heck.
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being a power user/IT professional most likely means non standard setup
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there are very few windows native admins in the linux sphere to test things from a non dev/non user perspective
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the companies making „professional“ linux are still not comparable to M$
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„professional linux“ would probably be RHEL for you.
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you can try and run a windows vm in your linux to try if stuff works then.
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your mindset needs to change: you‘re now a guy responsible for implementing rdp correctly, embrace open source and make it work for everyone. See the amount of influence you can actually have.
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if you can, consider using windows and linux side by side as long as needed, until stuff works. Find the reasons people abandon windows (i.e. you finally have control).
Just a stream of ideas. Hmu if you have any questions.
someone proficient in windows goes back to being a dumb newbie is gonna be frustrating as heck.
This was me. I kept thinking Linux was making things “overly complicated” until I really stopped to consider how extremely complicated it is in Windows or MacOS to do anything, we’re just all used to it. Once I re-framed my perspective to that of “a noob that was learning” it made it so much less frustrating and now after learning I see that Linux in most ways does things so much simper.
Now I don’t think it’s ease-of-use issues that prevent people from going with Linux, it’s switching costs. Few have time to learn a new system. Even if it is the easiest to learn.
That’s a lesson I learned switching to macos for a few years. After spending that much I basically had no choice but to learn to adapt.
It did make it a lot easier to switch to Linux later on because I’ve already abandoned a workflow and a set of apps once already.
I completely agree that linux is quite simple. Additionally, it allows for a lot of customization which is nice imo.
All extremely valid points. Especially…
- your mindset needs to change: you‘re now a guy responsible for implementing rdp correctly, embrace open source and make it work for everyone. See the amount of influence you can actually have.
This is the mind set I need. I was most likely so frustrated at the driver issues by this point, I probably didn’t give it the go it needed. Like I said when it came to compiling a dev branch, I just said f it. Hopefully I’ll get some time in the coming days to approach it with a fresh mindset.
Awesome to hear it. Feel free to update.
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but if someone with 20 years of IT experience gets this feed up with it, imagine how your average user would feel.
Do you think “your average user” would run into something like this? How many people are running 4 monitors?
This is stupid. While i am all up advocating for foss, trying to argue peoples usecases into non existence is not helping anyone.
My grandparents ran into problems with Linux because they wanted to connect their TV (second monitor) and use team viewer with it (to control it from their phone.
Some of my super non it friends use lots of monitors because who the hell knows why they need this for office stuff.
Its really bothering me that a part of “Linux die hards” always blames missing features or complicated processes on the user.
“Oh yeah, you want a working system? HERES WHY YOU SHOULDT WANT THAT AND WHY IT IS ACTUALLY A FEATURE THAT ITS NOT WORKING. Noob”
I think we need to accept that Linux is not for anyone.
Sure I can install the aur version of team speak from console, but my grandparents can’t. They can’t even read English documentation.
For people living it Linux is fine, and better than other systems, you can change your desktop envirment, fit it to your needs, not be constantly spied on, change everything you want (if you understand it enough to compile from source) nice.
But if you want anything more than “one monitor, mail, office (with bad grammar and spell check)” but are not comfortable with reading through pages and pages of documentation or spending an amount of time tinkering with your PC others spend with their kids, Linux just won’t work!
And we need to be honest to people with that or we set wrong expectations.
I am not dumb and not a total noob, but I broke my system recently because I wanted to change my username and didn’t read through all the little details why Linux can’t do this like any other os. On any payed os this is one klick, on Linux your documents break (because of groups), your desktop items break, your taskbar breaks (and I still haven’t got the taskbar panel working today, because no matter what the home folder in plasma settings is, panel always interprets ~/ as the old homefolder path, which doesn’t exist anymore and for the love of god I can’t find where panel stores this info), loots of symlinks break and im thinking about just installing from scratch because it is easier than to fix everything.
Linux just isn’t a payed os and you can’t expect everything from it you can from windows or osx. There are (lot of) usecases win and osx easily accomplish, and Linux doesn’t if your not a nerd or have lots of time.
Just saying those usecases are “not needed”. While people clearly need them is only helping Microsoft and apple.
“Oh yeah, you want a working system? HERES WHY YOU SHOULDT WANT THAT AND WHY IT IS ACTUALLY A FEATURE THAT ITS NOT WORKING. Noob”
That shit is why I hate Microsoft so much. The whole strength of Linux should be the flexibility to do what you want to do with it. 100% agree with you that Linux isn’t there yet but I am certainly trying to get there with it.
Do you think “your average user” would run into something like this? How many people are running 4 monitors?
I’m at the point where I have to admit that the ‘average user’ isn’t even using a desktop or laptop at all.
Grandma loves sitting in front of her 4 ultrawides while discussing the day with her friendly LLM
I run 6 on 2 gpus and it’s Just Werked TM for a few years now. On a Core2 Duo machine even.
For RDP, I use Remmina. Multimon only works on X though, not wayland, so make sure that’s the graphic server you’re running. Idk if it’ll work for 2x2 tho, I only have 2 monitors.
For the headaches, I use a magic pill that I’m not legally allowed to view the ingredients of and cry into my Tissues as a Service.
Multiple mistakes:
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You went with a very old distro, Ubuntu 22.04 is almost 2 years old. You could pick a non-lts ubuntu instead. Thankfully you ended up picking Fedora.
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A single google search could’ve given you better alternatives to FreeRDP like Remmina. You can always ask people stuff like this on Lemmy or elsewhere (“what’s the best rdp client on linux?”) rather than waiting till you run out of patience.
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You shouldn’t need to compile software by yourself, you can use flatpak to install newer versions of software and flathub even has a beta repo you can add for even newer software.
It’s not against you, we all learn from mistakes. Just try to be more social about your linux journey if you don’t want to struggle
Tldr: you made the classic mistake of going head first into this without a friend to help you or at least documenting yourself properly on the current state of Linux desktops through various medias like Youtube. It doesn’t help that you suffered from the ol’ “I’m a windows expert so this should be similar/easy and if it fails it’s not my fault”
Also, dont download packages as .rpm /.deb files, that almost never works. They could have just used their phone with usb-tethering to get Ethernet. I suppose.
While you make many valid points, I think it’s not reasonable to assume that OP could have avoided all the struggles they had, if they just had informed himself prior to installing. Especially since many of them problems described were probably caused by an unfortunate combination of software/driver issues, a specific hardware setup and certain user expectations.
I doubt that watching tech YouTubers or similar would have helped much.
Ubuntu 22.04 is not “very old”. It’s the latest LTS release of Ubuntu. I do not, at all, fault an IT professional for picking the LTS release instead of the absolute latest latest release.
I think it is a communication failure for Linux to not communicate that the jump between Linux distro versions (e.g. from Fedora 38 to Fedora 39) is not the same as a jump from Windows 8 to Windows 10. It is similar to the jump between the different Windows subversions, like from 21H2 to 22H2. Most people don’t even know what those numbers mean, and for most people, it doesn’t matter. A distro upgrade is nothing more than a big update, and that’s how I think it ought to be presented. People should be encouraged to use the non-LTS version as a default, and gently nudged to upgrade once a new one comes out. It shouldn’t be presented as a conplete change in operating system versions, but rather as a feature update. That’s what Windows does, and Windows versions are practically invisible!
The support for larger numbers of monitors and mixed resolutions and odd layouts in KDE vastly improved in the ubuntu 23.04 release. I wouldn’t install anything other than the latest LTS release for a server ( and generally a desktop ), but KDE was so much better that it was worth running something newer with the short term aupport on my desktops.
We aren’t too far off the next LTS that will include that work anyway I guess. I’m probably going to be making the move to debian rather than trying that one out though.
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It faschinates me a lot how a company like Nvidia can’t make working drivers even for xorg despite all the hype Nvidia moving their drivers into firmware. Amd sells gpu’s very low numbers and they never have these issues because they can afford to release their drivers for Linux.
Linux foundation should ban Nvidia. So many headaches and wasted resources cured immediadly.
Except then no one with an nvidea gpu even has a chance of using linux. Something’s better than nothing.
