or to keep the peace, maybe you think it’s not a big deal but your partner, friend, coworker, parent feels otherwise.
Do you apologize just to validate him?
I always though if I don’t feel bad about it, fuck it, I’m not apologizing, deal with it. It’s not my fault you’re so thin skinned. Grow up.
Now I’m thinking I should be more empathetic and apologize, just to make the aggravated person feel validated, even though I don’t feel bad (or that bad).
This gets more complicated because many times coworkers feel offended because I don’t share my personal life with them or I’m so concentrated on my job that I don’t notice them. Do I apologize for not noticing them?
Yes… Apologies aren’t about fault for me. They are about recognising other’s suffering, and possibly about acknowledging my contribution to that situation.
The apology isn’t about you, it’s about the other person, and showing you care about them.
This upsets me and I demand an apology.
I’m upset that you’re upset.
I get that this is a joke, but there’s a good point there too: I don’t give apologies because they were demanded, if give them because I can see that they’d help improve the situation.
But improvement is subjective; what if it does improve @spankmonkey@lemmy.world’s situation?
Then I’ll do it. If it doesn’t cost me too much. I can’t see someone else’s perspective really, but I can at least be empathetic…
It can be problematic when there’s no established actual violation and you simply go along with whoever is doing the demanding…
People who demand apologies are seldom the type who actually deserve apologies. Discernment is quite necessary here, if you apologize unduly, you are setting a pattern that helps establish the response they expect even when they act unreasonably or uncivilly.
People who actually care about you and actually need the whole “showing them you care about them” are almost never the ones doing the demanding
There’s a Catch-22 or tricky situation with that but you can avoid much of it by recognizing close people’s birthdays, anniversaries, or other inside dates of importance. I will say anybody who acts like you’re in trouble or deep shit if you dont recognize them for some random date, they are probably trouble you dont need. That date is a power they have harnessed you with
You need to decide if you forget their date or whatever thing: do you need to cede that right for them to make your life hell? Why do you owe them any of that?
Yeah, I’m definitely assuming good faith above. I’m lucky that I’m mostly surrounded by people for whom that assumption makes sense.
I tend to disagree (to a degree, (lel)). An apology is also a sign of regret of a previous action imo.
Yeah, that’s always gotta be true to some extent… If not, then the apology is gonna be insincere anyway. But it doesn’t mean that the regret has to be massive for you for the apology to be valid or useful.
At work, I apologize all the time.
With real people I actually care about, I only apologize for specific things I’ve done wrong. That way they know I mean it.
Id never thought about it in this way before. I apologize all the time just to keep things moving quick and easy, but maybe I should learn to be a bit more discerning for the sake of trust? Definitely something to think about
A key part is that you have to examine your own behavior with a critical eye.
It’s not even just trust but self-confidence. You may be giving off the impression that you can be walked on all over, and bullies may take advantage of that.
I teach programmers to say “Oops” when they make a mistake, rather than apologize. It’s epidemic.
Sorry im Canadian. I don’t know what you mean. 😅
I’m also Canadian, and don’t understand OP’s question. I’m sorry, buddy.
I apologize constantly for everything, my fault or not. I’m very annoying. I would learn towards the side of keeping the peace generally though.
Yeah, I basically apologize for existing in the same space as other people.
Bad habit. How come they dont apologize equally to you?
What would happen if you just… didnt and just did your business? Why are the apologies needed?
Almost certainly nothing bad, but I’m ashamed of existing
I was sort of getting at that. The tricky part is people will almost never treat you better than 1. You treat and present yourself and 2. How you assert you are to be treated by them (that order is descending in terms of importance). Few people will treat you better than you treat yourself in a way and it sort of makes sense given our evolution and development of social groups.
You can start small tho. Try to not say sorry for anything thats not an actual sorry-worthy accident or mistake for a day. Thats it.
Check your posture by watching a youtube video and near a mirror if you can. You wanna stand tall, shoulders back, head and eyes level i think, make sure you keep your hips/torso level too, a lot of people do that silly thing where they stand at a weird angle jutting out the abdomen so they look taller or skinnier or something but its not great for your body or how you come across. Make sure to bath or shower at least once a day, twice if you can get away with it right before bedtime so it helps you get to and better sleep
When you are clean, good posture, onlynsaying sorry when its genuinely reasonable and limiting it otherwise, working on feeling you deserve and command the space you need to accomodate your presence and contribution, it will be easier for everyone and yourself to have respect and uphold your dignity without you even needing to say a word
Its just expected and commanded in a non-threatening but palpable way
There’s an expression I am comfortable with and I wish more people could be.
NOT “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
Rather: “I’m sorry I made you feel that way.”
You can say this to someone without accepting blame for intending to hurt them or trying to hurt them. It’s just an acknowledgment that your actions had a consequence. Some people think that they have no responsibility for unintended consequences of their actions, and that only what they intended matters. Of course it’s important what they intended, and where they were coming from, but they can also accept that perhaps they didn’t think of everything or fully appreciate what their actions would do. We all make that mistake.
If the other person needs it and it doesn’t inconvenience me in the long term, yes. Also depends how much I care for the person in question. I don’t do this to just anyone. They usually know if they were wrong and learn from it. They don’t need me to confront them while they are vulnerable.
Doesn’t mean my feelings can’t be hurt though.
I did it so much in a retail job that the supervisor told me to stop saying sorry all the time and of course I immediately replied “sorry.” Being autistic and socially anxious will do that unfortunately. It’s taken time and I’ve gotten a bit better at not apologising for things that aren’t my fault, but it’s still an annoying habit.
In your defense, that’s probably better than the other way around!
There are times when apologies are more of a social lubricant or a way to signal you aren’t angry or hostile. Quickly apologizing for not hearing your coworker and asking them what they need might speed things along and get them away from you faster. You don’t need to feel any real sympathy for them. In this situation, an apology is more like a rote phrase said to ease into conversation and allow the other person a few seconds to move from “get their attention” mode back to “thing i need to say to them” mode.
For personal information, the purpose of an apology is just to slightly gentle the blow of not answering the question. Useful for maintaining a neutral relationship with coworkers. If the question is reasonable but you don’t want to answer (how was your vacation? do you like a particular musician?), you might consider tacking on an apology. If the question is out of line or inappropriate in that environment (are you gay? do you have a good relationship with your parents? what’s your body count? why won’t you give me $100?) a lack of apology gives them less opportunity to press.
Anyway, that’s where I’m at with it, but I’m not known for being socially adroit. A real apology is longer and comes with recognition of harm done, etc. You’re so sorry you spilled that coffee on their lap. You’ll watch where you’re going from now on. Do they need a first aid kit or some towels? The kind of day to day apology for not hearing someone is just a brief acknowledgement of them as a human so you can both get on with things.
Thats sort of disingenuous and also inauthentic tho. Its really not helping anyone when you affirm non-existsnt grievances
Is it a grievance or mild irritation? People constantly annoy each other over small things. If someone is genuinely deeply angry to the point where it’s a grievance about the little things in the original post, that’s a different matter.
If “sorry” for small inconveniences feels wrong, other vocalizations can take their place and serve the same purpose. Like “whoops” for dropping something or “hello, what do you need? i have to get back to this pretty quickly, though” for getting pulled out of work by someone with a question.
It doesn’t feel fake to me because this is just how “sorry” is used in these contexts. “social lubricant to move on from minor inconveniences and acknowledge the other party’s humanity” may not be in the dictionary, but it’s how it’s used over and over again, and that’s what language is. Shared, agreed on meaning. Is this prone to huge amounts of error? yup! Communication sucks when you aren’t naturally inclined to pick up non literal meanings for things.
Normally, I’d tack on an apology here for rambling, or going on so long, just as an acknowledgement that my inability to say things consisely is an inconvenience to read for other people. That would make this a shorter paragraph, and hopefully make people more inclined to engage in their reply to me with good faith, since I’ve shown my awareness that what I typed could’ve been a slog for them to read.
Canadian here. Sorry, but that’s our thing.
… sorry …
I hate you dear sir, but take my upvote for this great comment.
As someone who works with customers… yeah, it’s like 90% of my job
I try to be aware that needlessly apologizing devalues my apologies. I don’t have an issue saying it, but I refrain from doing so unless I actually mean it.
Bump into a Canadian at an airport and you’ll hear them apologize.
Am Canadian, can confirm.
Except outsiders don’t know we have 6 meanings for “sorry!” and one of them is “I’m sorry you’re not better”.
Like, “Bless your heart!” in the south.
Sometimes. I basically work call center for a company. User calls in, account locked.
“Oh sorry about that, let me get that unlocked for you.”
Truth is, I don’t give a fuck you got locked out. Stop being stupid when you type your password.
This is a good question and not stupid. I generally don’t say sorry reflexively, no. But yes I seek to empathize and see how my actions affect others. If there is something to apologize for, I do, and always try to take ownership of my mistakes.
If it’s something where I feel fine about what I did and sincerely think the other party has wildly misinterpreted it, I may ask what they think, depending on if I have time and whether I know them, or just let it go if I don’t know them, because I’m sure I’ve done the same to people.
In general I think I err on the not apologizing side and on the defensive side, not on the over-apologizing and too self critical side, nor on the blamey and critical of others side.
I tend to treat words fairly literally and try to be precise, so if I say ‘I’m sorry,’ it’s because I am sorry. If I want to sympathize, I can say other things. (‘That’s awful.’ ‘Those bastards…’ etc.) On occasions where I have not felt sorry because the other person has reacted emotionally to something , I tend to ask questions. Calmly giving people a chance to feel heard can often help.
In most cases, though, I try to move people toward solutions-oriented thinking to prevent spiralling. Asking questions lets them put the problem into words, helping them switch from a defensive emotional stance to an open brainstorming stance. Giving people a goal can make them feel a sense of progress, giving them distance from the problem and possibly netting a better final result than even might have happened without the inciting event.
