• RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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      9 hours ago

      Most authoritarian conservative right-wing movements gaining popularity right now are far away from the values that make up liberalism. There’s no shortage of those. In Europe they’re likely going to sweep most of the continent, if the recent polls hold true.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        9 hours ago

        Those are subsections of liberalism, I think you’re trying too hard to wishcast an ideal form of liberalism and cut out all of the other significant forms of it. Liberalism was used to justify colonialism, the slave trade, and continues to be used to justify imperialism.

        • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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          8 hours ago

          I think you’re using a much wider definition for liberalism than is common or at least what I’m familiar with. And it’s a big tent to begin with. Many of those movements are against most of what are typically considered core values of liberalism, so that’s why they’re often not included, as a subsection or otherwise.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            8 hours ago

            I’m using the common, historically relevant definition, the ideology supportive of individualism and private property rights. We can go more into its origins and how its changed over the years, but that’s liberalism at its core.

            • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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              8 hours ago

              I’m using basically what’s

              here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_parties_by_country

              And the subsets too get a wider view

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism#Parties_and_organisations

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism#Classical_liberal_parties_worldwide

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism

              Etc.

              Their definitions don’t include the parties I was thinking about, that are doing the “alt-right” wave right now for example. So for that reason I think we’re working from different definitions.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                8 hours ago

                The “alt-right” is still working on the foundations of liberalism. Fascism and liberalism aren’t really categorically different ideologies, but the same ideology in different conditions, with different class character, ie fascism is capitalism in crisis and comes from the petite bourgeoisie, while liberalism is capitalism when it’s doing better and nornally comes from the bourgeoisie proper.

                • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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                  8 hours ago

                  Idk the Wikipedia definition that I commonly see people use doesn’t seem to agree with that. If you throw in fascism, alt-right, all of that under liberalism then the meme of course covers more ground but it can get more confusing to those not using the same definition of liberalism as you seem to use.

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    8 hours ago

                    Copying wikipedia’s opening paragraph:

                    Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property, and equality before the law.[1][2] Liberals espouse various and sometimes conflicting views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.[3] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.[4][5]: 11

                    I agree with all of that being the general constructs of liberalism, especially the part where it is often conflicting. When some aspects win out over others, you get the different “flavors” of liberalism under its broad umbrella.