• RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    10 hours ago

    In that it doesn’t count those movements as part of liberalism or those parties under that umbrella. It’s the reason I posted those lists above.

      • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 hours ago

        Sure and it could be a salient point if it left out a few. It does tell you something when none of the parties in those movements are included though. Even in the articles for those particular ideologies you don’t see the claim that they’re subsets of liberalism, but a few mentions how they’re trying to counter liberal values.

        I don’t think it’s an accidental omission.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          9 hours ago

          Wikipedia isn’t going to word for word agree with Marxists, my point is that using Wikipedia at its own word, parties like Republicans fit into liberalism.

          • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 hours ago

            I mean I’m not sure if Wikipedia actually counts MAGA part of the party as liberals. I don’t think it does. That’s more along the lines of movements I was talking about. European alt-right the same deal.

            But if you’re working from a specifically Marxist viewpoint I’m guessing it uses a broader definition that includes those movements.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              9 hours ago

              Do you disagree that MAGA fits the underlying principles of liberalism, such as a reliance on individualism, private property rights, etc? MAGA fits into that, it isn’t a distinct ideology.

              • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 hours ago

                I’m not sure it counts at Wikipedia, with how they describe it (they call it “Trumpism”)

                comprises ideologies such as right-wing populism, right-wing antiglobalism, national conservatism and neo-nationalism, and features significant illiberal, authoritarian[7][8] and at times autocratic beliefs.[b] Trumpists and Trumpians are terms that refer to individuals exhibiting its characteristics. There is significant academic debate over the prevalence of neo-fascist[a] elements of Trumpism.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  8 hours ago

                  I don’t mean how Wikipedia themselves view it, but how we take Wikipedia at their word for liberalism’s definition and apply it independently.

                  • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    8 hours ago

                    I mean the whole point of bringing up Wikipedia was to show a common definition and what sort of movements are counted. If you use wider Marxist definition it covers a lot more, from what I’ve understood. The common Wikipedia counting doesn’t cover as much, so it leaves out some pretty popular movements, in which case the meme just mentioning liberals doesn’t make as much sense. But this being on .ml I think using the Marxist definition makes sense