Anyone else getting these donation ads? Was it just shoved onto an update by the Lemmy devs, or is this coming from the instance admins? It doesn’t seem to show on clean browser sessions to lemmy.ca

  • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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    4 days ago

    I’m curious, as someone who’s mostly only looked from the outside, what “slants too much on the moderator side” means.

    • TheObviousSolution@lemmy.caOP
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      4 days ago

      I’m referring to transparency features being like seeing who’s downvoting and upvoting comments or easy and relevant access to the modlog and comments getting removed. Piefed little effort to making the modlog transparent and hides upvoting and downvoting completely (they basically had to make up a new concern for it, “voting privacy”, but its an excuse that allows for the manipulation of the voting system and lack of accountability for already pseudonymous accounts) while also implementing a reputation system that is asking to be gamed. It puts more responsibility and power onto mods, admins, and devs, and it’s the second one that’s going to be more frequently exercised over conversations.

      Basically, does it allow users to police themselves and the content they want to see, or does it give it to the people behind the curtains?

      • Blaze (he/him)@lemmy.zip
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        2 days ago

        they basically had to make up a new concern for it, “voting privacy”, but its an excuse that allows for the manipulation of the voting system and lack of accountability for already pseudonymous accounts

        The “private voting” system has been removed months ago. Nowadays Piefed user can either decide to federate their votes (which can then been seen by lemvotes or other tools) or keep them local

        • TheObviousSolution@lemmy.caOP
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          2 days ago

          Doesn’t matter, the philosophy is still there. I will never expect them to be as transparent as Mbin, who provides voting transparency thus proving that the whole concept of voting privacy is bust and a power play. There is no epidemic of people abusing voting transparency that the “voting privacy” advocates might have argued, never mind that it is also false sense of security when it is completely visible to the server instance admins.

            • TheObviousSolution@lemmy.caOP
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              2 days ago

              So by your logic, just because they don’t provide all available forms of transparency means they don’t provide any? You are just searching for a “gotcha” when it isn’t even a counterpoint.

              As to why,

              If Mbin cannot support this then private communities need to block Mbin instances completely.

              That particular exception exists, it doesn’t take too much effort to find out why: https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/issues/1115 Among other things, Mbin was threatened to be blocked by Lemmy on default for part of its functionality by the Lemmy devs, and melroy decided to succumb to the pressure rather than split the fediverse on this issue. Honestly, I find the main Lemmy devs to be compromised given how much they want narratives to head in a particular political direction and the tool that lack of transparency on downvotes provides for that in regards to shaping visibility and discussion within threads. It wasn’t like that for a long time, but you knew that.

              • Blaze (he/him)@lemmy.zip
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                1 day ago

                So by your logic, just because they don’t provide all available forms of transparency means they don’t provide any? You are just searching for a “gotcha” when it isn’t even a counterpoint.

                I didn’t say they don’t provide any, I said that their transparency isn’t complete.

                If someone wants to have full votes transparency nowadays, using a Lemmy instance that federates lemvotes provides transparency on both up and downvotes, while Mbin only gives upvotes.

                Not sure if Mbin support lemvotes, but even if it does, then it’s similar to Lemmy: you have to use lemvotes to have full transparency

                • TheObviousSolution@lemmy.caOP
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                  1 day ago

                  Lemvotes isn’t foolproof, and just because something isn’t complete doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it. Although Lemvotes is another good example of how baseless the “voting privacy” argument is.

                  If I propose Mbin, it’s because between Lemmy and Piefed it has the most voting transparency, it doesn’t have to be perfect. I’d rather advertise instances that move towards it than those that move away with it due to ridiculous concepts like “voting privacy”.

                  To put it in the words that can illustrate the ideological hypocrisy surrounding it better, it is essentially a tool of the “bourgeois” to obfuscate general access to the “proletariat” of the user base. People have enough power to pseudonymize their votes to anonymous accounts, so it is a testament of insecurity to try to use dark patterns to hide access to it when it is readily accessible through sites like lemvotes to even the most hostile of parties. The sky hasn’t come down because these sites exist, and rather than the issue being the small minority of the people who might abuse them, I suspect it might be due to the insecurities of the people who downvote frequently or purposefully.

                  • Skavau@piefed.social
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                    1 day ago

                    You speak as if the fediverse has a supermajority of support for public voting. I don’t think it does. I think it certainly has a majority of support, but not a supermajority. I’ve been in threads where users have complained about Lemmy’s public voting and objected loudly about Piefed changing their system to incorporate public voting. Rimu straddled both sides completely transparently and came it with about as equitable an outcome as he could with the private non-federated voting and public federated voting.

                    This is pretty open.

                  • Blaze (he/him)@lemmy.zip
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                    1 day ago

                    just because something isn’t complete doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it.

                    Let’s just agree to disagree

                    On the other hand, I agree with you that votes should be public, but there are a lot of people who want them private

          • Skavau@piefed.social
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            2 days ago

            Piefed’s level of voting transparency is little different to Lemmys now, except for Piefed defederating from lemvotes. I was also present during the discussions about it - and Rimu was very open about why he initially didn’t like public voting. He changed it because of public pressure to do so. That’s not an absence of transparency.

            In any case, even if piefed.social is poor for this. That wouldn’t mean that piefed.zip or piefed.ca would have to follow the same instance policies.

      • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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        4 days ago

        seeing who’s downvoting and upvoting comments

        Lemmy doesn’t give you this either, though? (Unless you use a service like lemvotes, which I think does it by having admin access.) So how is it different?