US man bad too. Come on.
Both are bad and should be villified internationally and face repurcussions for their actions.
The wonderful thing about your comment is how blatantly it disregards the scale of the “atrocities” committed by the empire
Should the US pay reparations to Russia?
Looking to fill out my liberal bingo card I came to this thread looking for “two things can be true at once”.
Edit: by announcing I am observing a thread I have changed its behaviour. Redditors see my comment and rephrase into other clichés.
Wow only 3 minutes after your comment!
Sadly I’m looking for the specific phrase. It’s a cliché so it comes up often enough
Hey that’s me! Sadly not many replies though
…you understand that two things CAN be true at once, though. Right?
The one true statement is violating sovereignty is a bad thing. That’s the one bad thing.
You do understand how saying “two things can be true at once” as if you’re talking to an actual toddler is incredibly condescending and not a good place from whence to start a conversation, right? Have the basic respect for someone you’re talking and assume they also have object permanence.
Stepping into the room like you’re the enlightened Buddha whose shit don’t stink, because you just figured out that both Biden and Trump can be senile at the same time, only has the effect to make everyone else look at you like the idiot you are for- Not figuring it out earlier and
- Behaving as if you’re presenting some novel insight.
Alternatively if you’re trying to dunk on someone have the basic respect for the audience and be either effective or original, which “two things can be true at once” is, ironically, neither.
Edit: its also an incredibly reductive way of approaching geopolitics. Reducing critique of US foreign policy to “our guy bad yes, but their guy bad also!!” is in fact what whataboutism is supposed to describe. It’s a rhetorical trick drawing a line where the only discussion about world events can be about wether one of the two things the iniator mentions is more true than another. Bring up a third thing or a more in-depth critique of one of the two pre-existing things and you’ll get drowned out.
It’s a thought-terminating cliché.@Saapas@piefed.zip who I can’t respond to for some reason: good point! Wish I’d mentioned that
Alternatively if you’re trying to dunk on someone have the basic respect for the audience and be either effective or original, which “two things can be true at once” is, ironically, neither.
Whoops. Read the rest of the text next time buddy.
“RuSsIa MaN BaD!!”
Not what I’d call peak originality lol.
Not sure why you can’t reply to me though. I’m testing if it works for me replying to you (E: seems to work, might be an instance thing but no idea why it would only work in one direction)
You do understand how saying “two things can be true at once” as if you’re talking to an actual toddler is incredibly condescending and not a good place from whence to start a conversation, right? Have the basic respect for someone you’re talking and assume they also have object permanence.
If OP was looking for adult conversation, this title might’ve not been the greatest place to start lol:
Libs: “RuSsIa MaN BaD!!”
Gets called out for acting like a child
“Heh, just trying to make you feel at home”
The shithead classic
That was a different guy though
It’s true, generally one should not violate sovereignty by overthrowing a country’s government and replacing them with warmongering nazis eager to do ethnic cleansing.
So both should be villified for invading other countries, right?
Yup, and western European countries that participated should be vilified as well.
How dare you stand against USSR
USSR has been dead and buried for a while now. This was about the US and Russia
Anyone: “USA and EU is way worse than RF and PRC!”
Libs:
Just because Trump also breaks international law, doesn’t make it better when Putin does it (and not the first time either). Yes, Russia Man Bad! 👍🏻 Orange Man Also Bad!
The United States didn’t start invading and meddling in other countries until trump?
Trump has been president since 1846?
Nobody mentioned Trump. I am so fucking sick of liberals acting like the US wasn’t constantly attacking other countries before Trump.
Joe Biden supported and enabled the genocide in Gaza, and every president before him committed invasions and war crimes. The fact that you think it’s just a Trump thing and not a US empire thing reveals your geopolitical understanding to be puddle-deep. Hell, Putin was our guy. We put him there.
Liberals still deny that Biden is responsible for the genocide in Gaza
Trump is the president right now though
That is not an excuse to forgo object permanence and pretend Trump is an anomaly in any way except for how blatant he is. He’s not a deviation from US policy, he’s a distillation of it.
Liberals were happy to close their eyes and support genocide when it was covered by the thinnest veil of decorum
I’m just saying they might’ve mentioned Trump only since he is the president right now
That’s fair, but I also can’t know if they think Trump is an aberration and I consider it important to broaden the scope of the discussion
I dunno, Russian man seems pretty sensible all things considered.
If the warzaw pact was still a thing and it had slowly been inducting south- and central American nations, despite agreements not to do so, and it was now about to induct Mexico (which had had its government couped and replaced with a pro-russian government some years before), then I think it would be pretty sensible of the US to draw a red line at mexican Warzaw pact membership and invade in order to avoid it.
Also in this analogy Texas is part of Mexico and the Mexican government has been bombing Texas for eight years, in breach of two treaties with the US.So mexico = ukraine? Then texas = ?
It’s not a perfect metaphor, but Texas would be the the two Ukrainian states with a majority ethnic russian population that sought independence after eurromaidan
You think the fact that Russia is put under sanctions, barred from participating in international sports and other activities, has their gas lines to the rest of Europe bombed by the US, and is generally treated like they’re Nazi Germany is sensible? In a world where the countries making those decisions turn away when Israel and the US do much worse?
So do you feel like Russia shouldn’t be treated like that or the US and Israel also should be treated like that? I think the latter tbh
Well the US and Israel are much worse than Russia, so they should be treated worse than that, as should Western European countries that support their atrocities
Well lets see the why shall we.
Russia: Engaged in a military operation because of ever encroaching US imperialism via NATO and installing a Nazi puppet government against the wishes of the Ukrainian people as is the norm and attempting to liberate them
US/Orange man; oil and stopped those EvIl CoMmiEs
Oh shit, I forgot I’m posting to a Russian propaganda board 🙄 my bad, forget it happened. And please don’t report me to GRU.
If Putin said the sky was blue, would you suddenly insist it wasn’t?
Also: “everyone I disagree with is a russian propagandist. I am the only sapient creature in the world” - You, when you’re particularly honest with yourself
They 100% would
Considering how they reacted when Putin explained basic Eastern European history to
you’re probably right
Cope
Let’s send both Trump and Putin to the ICC in The Hague. How about that?
Biden, Obama and Bush Jr too
And Clinton, and the other Clinton, and Colin Powell, and Condoleeza Rice, and-
Trump and Putin sure, but also everyone whose ever had a leadership role in the USA military. Obama is still alive. Bush is still alive. And ideally to a more trustworthy court.
What does that accomplish?
Nobody mentioned Trump. I am so fucking sick of liberals acting like the US wasn’t constantly attacking other countries before Trump.
Fine, let’s send every single US president.
I agree, but only one of those 2 countries has proclaimed (in law if im not mistaken, but i may be wrong) that they would intervene militarily to prevent one of their own from being tried by the ICC, regardless of the actual crimes they’ve committed. And im talking about sending special forces to extract said alleged criminal against humanity, from another sovereign nation, abiding by its own laws.
Guess which of the 2 I’m talking about? Russia is by no means the good guy, but its not a binary issue, as most people on the internet seem to react when these 2 countries are mentioned in the same sentence. Russia being ‘bad’ doesn’t automatically make the US ‘good’ and vice versa.
Sure, who’s worse shifts back and forth over the years, but to my eyes, currently, the US is worse, and its been that way for a long time. Way before trump. Anyone who thinks this all started when trump took office, is a bit deluded.
But you’re 100% right, send both of them to the ICC, in an ideal world.
Calling the court “a pathetic international organization”, Dmitry Medvedev, the Deputy Chairman of Russia’s Security Council, warned: “Gentlemen, everyone walks under God and missiles. It is quite possible to imagine the targeted use of a hypersonic Onyx missile by a Russian ship in the North Sea strikes in the Hague court building. Unfortunately, it cannot be shot down… So, judges of the court, watch the skies closely.”
Russia’s top investigative body announced Monday that it had opened a “criminal” case against the prosecutor and judges of the International Criminal Court (ICC).
The move comes as part of a concerted effort from Moscow to intimidate the court in the Netherlands, which on Friday issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin over his part in “unlawful” forced deportations of Ukrainian children to Russia.
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev threatened earlier Monday to target the court in The Hague with missile strikes.
https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-russia-icc-criminal-case-moscow-ukraine-war/
I don’t think it’s reasonable to equivocate a former president making a verbal threat, which still sucks, with an actual state apparatus signing it into law
Both are violent threats. US just used to be more legalistic about this sort of thing. I mean Russia also sentenced the judges in absentia in Russian courts. I don’t think you could say they’re better.
Better in what way, morally? Morality isn’t real and the level of geopolitics is where it’s the least real. From a practical, threat assessment standpoint, one of these things is much more urgent and pressing than the other.
I mean yeah one of them is right now bombing another European country so Russia is obviously more alarming but the American threat is pretty bad too
“Russia is more alarming because they’re bombing white people, not just subhumans in the global South!”
One of them is currently supplying and abetting a genocide, kidnapping heads of state, shooting people in the street during gestapo raids, disappearing activists to concentration camps, bombing countries on multiple continents, trying to topple the government of Iran and preparing for multiple invasions.
The other is at war with the puppet government of exactly one country, which was committing ethnic cleansing and who we put there as part of our own strategy of aggression.
I know who I consider the bigger threat to peace.
I’d be on board.
Is there a sane reason why a man at an airport would be wearing all these hats?
They don’t fit in his luggage (or would be smashed) so that’s the easiest way to take them onboard. Maybe purchased as gifts to relatives.
memes community
posts tankie propaganda with no entertainment value
I wonder why no one likes tankies?
Communists can have our own spaces, just like y’all can have your own. Communists tend to not be particularly fond of Lemmy.world either.
Feel free to leave
Americans don’t like the USA taking these actions (well until the big fat orange blob actual does them, then his base instantaneously flips their opinion to being for it)
I’m unsure on whether you’ll receive a notification for this message, but if you have a lot of time to kill and enjoy podcasts you might wanna check out Blowback season 1 which deals with Iraq and explains the broader context. So many American liberals (and definitely the establishment) wanted to invade Iraq and they did, but since it’s now considered to have been a bad thing so many liberals retroactively pretend they were always against it.
Yeah they do, they just claim afterwards that they didn’t. One Day Everyone Will Have Been Against This.
