Yeah, both sides amiright?
The Democrats aren’t in power anymore, Palestine is saved! /s
Despite what Biden said, there never were any restrictions. Israel gave basically had a free for all since the beginning. White phosphorus was used right at the beginning and no consequences happened. They bombed hospital and nothing happened. They killed aid workers and nothing happened. Unless trump sends American troops in then nothing changes, Israel is going to do what it was always going to do.
What restrictions?
I know this is a disgusting thought but, assuming there are ever free elections in the United States again, Gaza won’t be an issue in 2028. Palestine will just be a memory.
Can we not use Fox News, please? They legally argued in court they are strictly entertainment and no reasonable person would believe them. In other words, they are literal propaganda.
But yeah, I hope the smug voters that sat this election out are happy…
Given that Biden was too much of a coward to enforce any restrictions, nothing will really change.
Where my “Democrats are evil genocide people” posters now?
Why are americans so fuckin dumb? Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
It feels like they are just interested in finding a scapegoat to blame rather than asking the real questions, why did so many people voted for trump? Did kamala, despite having more funding, failed to convey her plan? What happened and why it happened and how can it be avoided?
It feels like they are just interested in finding a scapegoat to blame rather than asking the real questions, why did so many people voted for trump? Did kamala, despite having more funding, failed to convey her plan? What happened and why it happened and how can it be avoided?
You answered these questions in your very first line.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb?
They’re angry and looking for an easy scapegoat. Even though it’s obviously the wrong one. We all knew Trump was worse, which is why Mehdi Hasan and many others were pleading with Biden to please change course because he was destroying his re-election by his own hand. Biden overruled his advisors and the state department and pressed forward on an unpopular policy in hopes he could get republicans to vote for him and it failed. He undermined his own foreign policy and ruined his own career.
Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
Trump voters are lost. We (incorrectly) expected those that aren’t dumb enough to directly vote for Trump to be smart enough to understand FPTP voting and act appropriately to avoid the worse outcome.
We were wrong.
Most likely what happened was inflation and a whole lotta price gouging, and people think Biden was to blame. The same people seem to think that donvict has a magic wand.
Biden’s response to the price gouging was a super bowl ad in which he asked those who were engaging in shrinkflation to cut it out.
What funny is, i never heard in news about democrats impose any restriction on israel weapon donation.
You see it is like the media reporting “hamas want a deal” even when hamas october 7 plan was aim at getting a deal to swap prisoner, agreed to Biden deal in July but then the US backtracked their statement.
i went to hamas website and the statement was “Trump should listen to what the American people want”
I believe all these post are by Zionist to create a division in supporting ending the massacres.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb? Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
It’s because of do-gooder derogotation, and generally not caring about winning or learning from mistakes so long as they can save face and protect their egos.
Do-gooder derogation is a phenomenon where a person’s morally motivated behavior leads to them being perceived negatively by others.
One possible reason for do-gooder derogation is ‘anticipated moral reproach’. This describes a threat to one’s moral standing and to their sense of self-worth.
Research suggests that since people are highly sensitive to any criticism or challenge to their morals, they are more likely to put down the source of this ‘threat’.
Did anyone tell the Palestinians that this would have been the same and to not worry? We had brave, brave people who sat on their hands and did nothing in their name, so I hope they’re grateful for their “sacrifice.”
The more common correlary was to sit on one’s hands and provide consent for genocide or to try to vote shame on support of genocidal candidates.
Though I think you know that those who stand with Palestine tend to be more politically active than your typical Democratic voter. I know I don’t see your type in the streets or running education programs or building connections to support Palestinians directly.
Oh my, my type? Goodness, you know, I didn’t see your type either now that I think about it! When I went to protests and meetings in my community, I’m afraid I didn’t see you there, I only saw people who we trying to actually help people, you know, the ones that knew they were between and rock and a hard place, but actually tried to not hand the government over to a blood thirsty racist, while making sure the community was informed in what steps to take should he win and are now continuing to rally and make their voices heard instead of “not VoTiNg fOr GeNoCiDe” which, you know, kind of got us here.
But perhaps it’s scary to stand for a belief off of the internet, but I’m unfamiliar with the feeling because my mom didn’t raise a bitch.
Don’t worry, we’ll handle it, sport. You just stay safe inside, okay? ♥️
Oh my, my type? Goodness, you know, I didn’t see your type either now that I think about it! When I went to protests and meetings in my community
Speaking about this as if they are over and not something ongoing says a lot. I’m leaning towards this just being a lie.
, I’m afraid I didn’t see you there, I only saw people who we trying to actually help people, you know, the ones that knew they were between and rock and a hard place, but actually tried to not hand the government over to a blood thirsty racist, while making sure the community was informed in what steps to take should he win and are now continuing to rally and make their voices heard instead of “not VoTiNg fOr GeNoCiDe” which, you know, kind of got us here.
I have never seen a pro-Palestinian protest with that message. That just sounds like you projecting your armchair liberal takes onto other people.
The people who organize pro-Palestinian protests are socialists and allied Palestinian groups, occasionally JVP. And while JVP is milquetoast and weak, even they aren’t that mealy-mouthed.
But perhaps it’s scary to stand for a belief off of the internet, but I’m unfamiliar with the feeling because my mom didn’t raise a removed.
I wonder what slur you used while calling yourseld a good person.
Don’t worry, we’ll handle it, sport. You just stay safe inside, okay? ♥️
It id also telling that this is the only part of my comment that you replied to.
What slur? Now you really have loss me. People in my community were realistic about what we could get done on 11/5. We didn’t call anyone a slur, we’re not Republicans. Naive? Foolish? Maybe, but what slur? I’m not calling myself a “Good” person, but I’m am calling myself a politically involved and empathetic beyond what is comfortable for me. I’m sure you also feel like you’re a good person, and maybe you are, I only know you from this interaction. But I’m at peace with what I did on 11/5 because I didn’t stop working.
I’m fine being down voted knowing that I did and will continue to do what I can. Just like I’m sure you’re fine feeling that you did and/or are doing the same.
I’m sorry, I’m just so angry that we are in this position, and that it’s even worse. It’s very, very frustrating (though I’m sure it’s the same for you).
Still not sure why you think we’d be walking around calling people slurs though 👀
Edit: Whoops, their account is gone I think? Sorry. I swear I didn’t report. 🙏🏾
They were braver than that, friend! They took to the internet in droves, and in every comment thread they showed everyone how principled they were, commenting “I ReFUsE to VoTE 4 GENOCIDE!!!”, spreading their message to either vote 3rd party or don’t vote at all. They worked hard AF to spread their apathy far and wide!
This type of person doesn’t give a fuck about actual Palestinians. It’s just a way to make themselves seem virtuos and ideologically pure.
That they did. I’m sure Netanyahu is grateful.
You could literally ask them yourself. They quite explicitly refused to vote for you and your genocidal racist candidate.
You brave, brave keyboard warrior who would get their ass beat if you said any of this in person
Lmao I would absolutely square up against a fascist. Don’t threaten me with a good time. See, I’m an adult. I understand the work doesn’t stop at the vote, but I know how important it is to do what I can, even if it’s small. And I know that giving the government the equivalent of a cold shoulder allows shit to happen. Evil happens when good people do nothing, and, unlike you I guess, I refuse to do nothing. I’m involved in my local government and plan to keep working. I’d say you should do the same, but I think we both know that ain’t happening. But I hope you feel good doing nothing but bad mouthing those braver than you on the internet. Just down vote me and be on your way. 💅🏾
It’s a very nazi thing to accuse your victims of being fascists.
Hey OP can you list the restrictions currently in place?
They are mentioned in the article, if we can call it that. But no specifics:
Currently, U.S. restrictions include an embargo on a certain weapons shipment and limitations on various combat-related equipment, even if they do not involve explosive ordnance.
So … Nothing real. OK.
What does this entail, nukes?
The 2000 pound bombs are still flowing. I can’t think of a single restriction.
This is because none of it is enforced and it OOS just a fig leaf. They claimed to embargo “offensive” weaponry while keeping a firehose of JDAM shipments to the Zionist entity.
That’s just rewording the nonspecific claim. You were asked for a list of the restrictions.
Good work Pro-Palestinian voters who support, especially in Michigan, Mango Mussolini or an independent. We tried to warn you and there is going plenty of US made tungsten zipping through the air in Gaza and southern Lebanon, This also means you can kiss the West Bank good-bye and that is Israeli’s primary objective.
Thanks, Uncommitted Assholes.
I voted Uncommitted in the primary so that Biden and the Democrats would get a count of how many people took the issue seriously. Primaries are a great place for message votes.
I also donated, volunteered, and voted for the Biden and then Harris campaigns, and didn’t hold back any support in public. I had no illusions about how bad it would (now will) be with Trump in the Whitehouse.
I loved having people arguing with me and saying “At least my conscience is clear.”
How’s your conscience now??? Still feeling good about your decision?
They think they get to wipe their hands of it because they “didn’t participate”, refusing to concede that said choice still counts as their participation. Through ignorance, cruelty, and/or privilege, they’ll blame everyone else for the state of the world while refusing to do their part.
Howard Zinn - you can’t be neutral on a moving train. The Enlightened Centrists ™ always look like suuuuuch dipshits when they talk about “both sides”.
Howard Zinn would not support the genocide of Palestinians nor voting for genociders, nor is withholding a vote neutrality. Zinn was forcefully against the War on Vietnam before it was acceptable in liberal academic circkes and drew a hard line on it.
Have you read his books?
I have indeed read his books. I doubt he would have welcomed the idea of putting donvict in office because something something “Genocide Joe”.
“bUt i VoTeD iNdEpEnDaNt”
I loved having people arguing with me and saying “At least my conscience is clear.”
How’s your conscience now??? Still feeling good about your decision?
There is a certain set of dumbasses that will say this kind of thing no matter what.
Feeling very good about my decision, yes.
Dirtier than Trump supporters
How’s your conscience now??? Still feeling good about your decision?
Yes.
Trump is an irredeemably evil genocidal psychopath who deserves eternal torture in the deepest circle of hell. That fact does not make me wish that I had voted for a different irredeemably evil genocidal psychopath who deserves eternal torture in the deepest circle of hell. The fact that Trump is horrible was never in dispute.
So Harris = Trump? Equal equal?
I’ll be there devil’s advocate here and say that this whole shit show started under Biden and Harris
Oh, I didn’t say that. Not all irredeemably evil genocidal psychopaths who deserve eternal torture in the deepest circle of hell are exactly as bad.
But it means your vote could have helped bring the victory to someone less genocidal.
I know Harris is not a pro-Palestine person, but she’s someone we could have talked to and could have felt the pressure of her voters. At the very least she doesn’t support the annexation of the West Bank and Gaza, unlike Trump, who couldn’t give less of a shit about Palestinians and is happy if Israel leveled them down
P.S. I don’t want to make you feel guilty. The political system the US people live in is a shit. I’m just disappointed that maybe she could have had a chance of winning if people didn’t abstain.
she’s someone we could have talked to and could have felt the pressure of her voters.
No, she absolutely isn’t.
Politicians are never more receptive to voters’ concerns than just before an election. Once they have people’s votes, they tend to shift further in the direction of interests groups and the establishment. Like, for example, on the campaign trail, Obama promised to end mass surveillance and protect whistleblowers, but once he was in office, he did the opposite. Harris on the campaign trail, after the widespread campus protests, was the most pro-Palestine she would ever be, which is to say not even the slightest bit and completely unconditionally supportive of material aid to Israel.
It used to be that politicians would promise to do good things on the campaign trail, and then usually not follow through. But now they don’t even have to promise anything, because people will just project whatever views and values they hold onto whichever candidate they like regardless of anything they say or do.
Harris and Biden are unconditionally supportive of everything Israel does. Short of direct involvement of the US military, it’s not really possible for Trump to be meaningfully worse than that.
Harris and Biden are unconditionally supportive of everything Israel does. Short of direct involvement of the US military, it’s not really possible for Trump to be meaningfully worse than that.
Remind me of this genocide-downplaying take in three months or so, please.
Okay I understand your point. Unfortunately Palestinians are not the only targeted ones. We have
- LGBTQ people
- Atheists and non-Christians
- Leftists and pro-democracy people. Non-fascists in general
- Scientists
- Ukrainians
- Refugees and immigrants
Harris said and has showed to support them. Trump vowed to destroy all of them.
Yes, thank you for teaching the lesson that you should not support genocide.
Now we get to see who has learned from this snd who is going to double down despite losing.
Wasn’t the uncommitted movement some 100,000 people strong?
Didn’t Harris lose by millions?
How would have the uncommitteds saved the election if their numbers represented a fraction of what Democrats needed?
Could a more likely explanation of this deplorable outcome be that Democrats did this to themselves by not rallying up their base enough to bring more people out to vote?
Stop blaming the American people.
Almost 100,000 in Michigan alone likely flipped the swing state.
Looks like Harris did lose by about 79,000 votes in Michigan.
Comparatively, about 44,500 went to Stein.
We don’t ultimately know how the uncommitted movement voted. If they were a monolith throughout, we’d expect 100k for Stein. If some abstained and some voted for Harris or Trump, that would’ve split the movement.
If all of Stein’s voters went to Harris, however, that wouldn’t have changed the outcome. Harris would have still been short ~34,400. So if you wanted to make the argument that the uncommitted movement was a voting block, then the entire ~44k block voting for Harris wouldn’t have changed the outcome.
Overall I don’t see Michigan outcomes changing my argument. If Dems were more persuasive, even if they lied about Gaza, they could have sweeped the nation. And even if the uncommitteds chose the lesser of two evils, Kamala still lost all other swing states. You can’t chock the outcomes of those states up to the uncommitteds, because the largest organizational presence was in Michigan.
They would have been enough to secure the swing states and win Harris the electorial college. Her campaign would have need to promote more progressive policies that addresses the material needs of Americans, instead of running to the right on issues, in order to also pick up the popular vote.
Stop blaming the American people
100% It’s entirely on the campaign to secure votes. That’s the entire job of the campaign. Blaming voters is an easy scapegoat that accomplishes nothing. And when it’s blaming marginalized groups, it seems like it’s only promoting hate against the people most vulnerable to the violence of fascism
It was the Harris campaign that made the decision to not break from Biden on Israel, at the cost of at least a +6 points gain. Those votes were entirely up for grabs. That’s the fault of the campaign’s calculations to ignore those voters, take them for granted, and instead run to the right with having the most lethal Military and unwaivering support for Israel a year into this genocide. That single policy change would have secured her the swing states needed to win the election. Biden is a Christian Zionist, the genocide and de juro annexation of Palestine is exactly what he wants.
I voted for Harris and told others to do the same. It’s still on the campaign to earn votes to win. If they took this election seriously, they would have been going after those votes. Blaming voters is just sowing division when we need unity and solidarity to fight against Fascism.
Quote
Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
The United States Administration is the one enabling Israel unconditionally. Support for this genocide is bipartisan.
Can you also make a graph on how many luxury hotels Trump is going to build in Gaza after the rubble is cleared, thanks 👍
Do you think I’ve ever supported Trump or something when I’ve repeatedly called out his Hitlarian and Fascist rhetoric and policies?
Yes, because you helped him win.
By voting for Harris? By telling others to also vote for Harris even if anti-genocide is their single issue? By voicing my concern that the campaigns strategy of ignoring all the uncommitted voters in swing states and failing to break from Biden on one of his most unpopular positions was risking losing the election? How exactly did I help Trump win?
By promoting the lies that either Biden or Harris can single handedly stop the genocide, and that they’ve made no attempt to do so.
If we just ended our alliance with Israel, do you know what they would do next? They would likely ally themselves with Russia instead.
That would give Russia control over a port that facilitates a huge portion of commerce in the middle east. It would also give them control of a lot of tech companies, including Intel’s massive R&D campus, and they would have access to the iron dome, which would be a pretty big intelligence leak. Israel also has an extremely important spy network that western countries rely on, and suddenly they would start serving Russia instead.
It would also allow the rest of the middle east to “escape containment”, so to speak. Particularly Iran. As soon as that happens, where do you think their missiles will go next?
Oh, and the genocide of Palestinians would still continue.
Geopolitics is complicated, and Biden was walking a tightrope. He was at least placing limits on how US weapons could be used, and trying to negotiate a ceasefire. Trump will scrap all of that and encourage Israel to kill everyone in the region.
But you didn’t care about any of that. Your moral outrage prevented you from trying to figure out why things are the way they are, and you joined the choir of people who were trying to prevent anyone from voting for Harris. A choir that mostly consisted of Trump supporters who were just trying to promote anything that might hurt Harris’s chances of winning.
By promoting the lies that either Biden or Harris can single handedly stop the genocide, and that they’ve made no attempt to do so.
They haven’t. You can’t have a permanent ceasefire when the US is continually supplying military weapons unconditionally to the side committing the genocide.
He was at least placing limits on how US weapons could be used, and trying to negotiate a ceasefire
Only in rhetoric, not in policy. No limits were placed even after the 30 day deadline of Israel continuing to deny aid to a starving population. The same population Israel continually targets civilians, mostly women and children, and civilian infrastructure like hospitals and refugee camps.
Timeline: The Biden administration on Gaza, in its own words
One Year of Empty Rhetoric From the White House on Israel’s Wars
If we just ended our alliance with Israel, do you know what they would do next? They would likely ally themselves with Russia instead.
Reigning in Israel into a permanent ceasefire is not ‘ending our alliance’ it would only force Israel to abide by International Humanitarian Law for once and end the genocide and Apartheid. Nor would that mean they would Ally with Russia, which they aren’t even on great terms with. Peace is also in China’s best interest in order to increase trade with Middle East countries.
Geopolitically, Russia still benefits far more from peace than the current situation.
On Russia and the Middle East
But beyond Russia rekindling old ties and worrying about domestic extremism, the big shift in the Russian relationship with Israel is rooted in Moscow’s increasingly close bilateral security relationship with Iran. I don’t think we can emphasize this enough. This development puts the rest of us—the United States and Europe—in quite a predicament. Russia is now engaged with Iran in two different conflicts, Ukraine and Israel/Gaza. Obviously, this is in quite different ways, but the Russia/Iran relationship greatly complicates the situation in the Middle East, Israel, and Gaza, and the battlefield in Ukraine. Russia’s relationship with Iran—not just Zelenskyy’s Jewish heritage, or all the Russian speakers of Jewish Ukrainian heritage in Israel—as well as the U.S. role in support of both Ukraine and Israel start to draw the two sets of conflicts into the same geopolitical frame.
I think prior to October 7, the Russians were very interested in the idea of the Israelis having a breakthrough with Saudi Arabia that they could then capitalize on economically and politically. Putin may even think that he can still bounce back with Israel at some point when the dust settles in Gaza, although I doubt that. I heard a prominent Israeli at a recent event say that Russia has now moved itself into the enemy category with Israel after decades of relations improving. And Russia has also always had a somewhat complex and awkward relationship with Saudi Arabia, even though they’ve been recently touting that relationship—we saw Putin on a sort of semi-victory tour of the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia in early December last year.
In the context of energy relationships, where Saudi Arabia is so important, Russia has often not gone along with what OPEC+ and the Saudis have wanted in terms of committing to production cuts to bolster oil prices. Russia is always thinking about its own bottom line, and volume is often better for Moscow than just price. Putin is continually focused on trying to make sure that Russia’s energy revenues are not imperiled in any way—especially given Moscow’s loss of its dominant position in Europe’s energy markets after the invasion of Ukraine. And then there is Iran, and Saudi Arabia’s difficult relationship and regional rivalry with Tehran. This is one of the reasons why Putin went to the UAE and Saudi Arabia in December 2023, to cozy up to the Gulf Cooperation Council/leading Gulf states and Saudi Arabia to balance Russia’ closer security ties with Iran.
You can rationalize the US’s decision to fund and allow Israel to eradicate the entire people of Palestine all you want. It is unacceptable. It’s causing a rise in genuine antisemitism and islamophobia. I will do everything in my power to support Palestinian sovereignty and emancipation.
Western liberals live in a fog of thought-terminating clichés that allow them to support The Party regardless of what it does or stands for. One of those ckichés is thst if you disagree with them or don’t support their politicians, you are actually a sleeper agent of the “enemy” faction.
Calling you a Trump supporter isn’t the only variation on this. They do the same re: “Putler” if you criticize US policy tiwards Ukraine and various racist accusations if you are anything less than a sinophobe.
In fact there are already BlueAnon conspiracy comments in this comment section trying to call pro-Palestinian protesters a Russian op. Normally you’d see this kind of logic on your weird Uncke’s facebook page but through liberalism alk things are possible.
Thank you for voicing this opinion in this thread, and bringing the receipts.
A Gaza ceasefire would be impossible without Netanyahu agreeing to it. So that 6% swing’s based on a hypothetical that’d never happen, especially when Netanyahu was doing everything he could to help Trump. And, if Trump were the candidate of peace, why would that butcher do that?
Guess what then
Lie to the American people.
Lie like Obama did! And lie well. Tell the biggest lie. Because clearly that worked for Trump!
Democrats stared down the barrel of fascism this election, and didn’t even think to come off their high horse to score a victory.
I mean, they still lied plenty, they aren’t on a high horse for pretending to push a ceasefire while providing unconditional support for Israel.
They made a choice to stick by their pro-Israel donors and NatSec ghouls that want clear pro-Israel messaging.
Your take is absolutely idiotic.
How? What does blaming voters accomplish exactly?
If the Democratic Party is genuinely democratic, then they would respond to public pressure. If the Democratic party is not and instead only beholden to Donor interests, then we all have a much bigger problem where the interests of the American public is not represented.
Harris became the candidate without winning a single primary, the only explicit democrstic mechanism in the party itself. She lost to Andrew Yang. She was selected behind closed doors by party insiders and donor input.
Dems have never been democratic, they are a capitalist party by and for the largest business owners and finance. They cannot be reformed. The most realistic electoral option is for them to die like the Whigs and be replaced, though even that will be highly limited by the outsized power capitalists have over the state.
Removed by mod
I have no clue what you’re trying to say here
Why would I expect people who care about ending the genocide to stop caring about that?
the donors of the Democrats/Republicans are doing a good job keeping the citizens divided and pointing fingers at each other
Yeah, no.
After months of alleged “Genocide Joe” bullshit, they don’t get to shirk themselves of this.
They were told this was going to happen. They didn’t want to listen.
But hey, they’ve gone from not complicit, to extremely complicit.
Your statement that we were not complicit before is just plain old lies.
I think you have the wrong we in that case
Democrats always have a scapegoat to explain the bad performance away too
alleged “Genocide Joe” bullshit
For a guy who’s only alleged, he sure does support a lot of genocide.
Yeah, no. After months of alleged “Genocide Joe” bullshit, they don’t get to shirk themselves of this.
I see, so you are going to let them have it by whining and nagging on anonymous forums? Is that how you will keep them from “shirking”?
Nothing alleged about Genocide Joe.
Any vote for Harris or trump was still a vote for the war crimes to continue. The American people never had a say on this issue.
And yet, this very article we’re commenting on is about war crimes getting worse.
Almost like when your options are “bad” or “worse” you shouldn’t vote for “worse.”
And yet, this very article we’re commenting on is about war crimes getting worse.
Except it isn’t because the US has been continually supolying the arms Israel needs to carry out this genocide and these supposed “restrictions” are a fig leaf.
Again, the Biden-Harris regime provides unconditional support to Israel and its genocide. Recycled clichés about lesser evils don’t apply.
That sounds like some extortion. Not exactly something I would want to champion or believe to be a viable political platform
Blinks
That… is nothing the fuck like extortion.
“Vote for me or I’ll release these pictures of you fucking your dog” is extortion.
“Vote for me because my opponent will make this issue you claim to care about worse” is not.
“Vote for me or my friend here will kill your dog” is the alleged scenario.
Though really the person making that threat is also saying they will kill your dog.
That sounds like some extortion.
Life gives us hard choices. Whining that they don’t perfectly suit your pristine moral absolutism doesn’t change that.
Oh, I’m sorry genocide isn’t a big enough issue for you, I hope you get a new set of morals soon, yours seems damaged.
That reads like exactly how republicans describe democrats. Can you not see how far to the right you have strayed?
Normalizing genocide is not a hard choice, it just confronted boilerplate Dem propaganda and any pretense of being a good person.
If you are intetested in doing real political work it will not be something as minor as a single vote for 99% Hitler vs. 98% Hitler.
There are differences in degree between Trump and the Democrats, and anyone who claims otherwise is malicious or ignorant. But stick to your binary thinking and reflect on what you’ve done to the rest of us by putting Trump back into power.
That’s true, there is a difference! While the genocide would receive material support either way, Democrats receive your support and silence while Republicans do not.
No. That’s not a thing.
It is, of course. Matginslization is created and maintained to suit ruling class interests, to ensure you blame the marginslized rather than the capitalist.
Why do you think immigrants are being scapegoated? Did they close the factories or fire the workers?
Don’t leave out the Harris campaign with the Cheneys and the DNC
Well, to all the folks arguing with me on how voting for Harris was bad because of Gaza: CONGRATULATIONS! You REALLY made a point there. The Palestinians had a chance under Harris. Instead of voting for a chance for the Palestinians, you did nothing or voted for genocide. You did it from the other side of the world, where you won’t have to suffer the consequences.
“A vOTe fOR hARriS iS a VoTE FoR gENociDe”
Fucking morons
Fucking Russians. Fixed it for you.
“BlUe MaGa”
Yes, we are seeing that in spades in this comment section.
After 13 months of genocide backed by your candidates, where you were all out here sharing false lesser evil logic and other thought-terminating clichés about how you need to tolerate genocide to win, well, your candidate lost. Your strategy failed. Really, the party’s strategy failed, as your political role relative to its decisions is someone who makes no demands and can be largely ignored.
Are you taking this time to reflect on how you were wrong? That maybe you shouldn’t support genocide or project a false pretense of political understanding when what’s underneath is really just right wing Democrat Reddit memes?
Nope, nothing is ever the fault of the party or its most dedicated soldiers. The party cannot fail, it can only be failed, right?
Blue MAGA.
It’s pretty obvious that the Gaza protesters were given disproportionate media coverage because Russia paid for it to be pushed as a wedge issue.
Even this article is just anti leftist propaganda.
The actual amount of people that protest voted was a non factor this election. The exact same ratios of Muslims, Jews, and young people voter the same this time as in 2020.
It was pretty obvious most Americans don’t care about Gaza, and didn’t let it influence their voting.
I’ve seen polling prior to the election that asked people about their most important issues when voting.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx
The Republican voter’s top issues were the economy, immigration, terrorism/nation security, crime and taxes.
Meanwhile, the Democrat top issues were US democracy, the supreme court, abortion, healthcare and education.
Basically, foreign policy was a non issue for voters. Gaza did not factor into most voter’s decisions at all. And of course it doesn’t. When you’re worried about putting food on the table, you can’t afford rent, your bodily autonomy is at stake and your country is going to shit… you’d be silly to vote based on Gaza. Because that’s directly voting against your own interests. Gaza should not have been a large talking point or even at all.
I think the reason a lot of Democrats stayed home was basically candidate fatigue. They just didn’t feel like voting for a candidate so boring and faceless. And she didn’t have nearly enough time to turn things around. Why bother voting when democratic leadership clearly isn’t taking voters and their actual issues seriously?
The turnout of Democratic voters was lower than previous elections. There are too many variables at play to claim anything definitively, but it’s safe to assume that the number of voters who abstained due to the issue was more than zero.
If a conclusion is going to be drawn about whether the whole genocide topic had a tangible effect on the outcome, it’s important to consider those as well as the protest votes.
For something like 30 years running, the real winner of the election was non-voters. When other countries have this level of boycott and the US doesn’t like them, they get called “regimes” in need of “democraticization”.
I really want to see a credible analysis showing how many of those non-votes were due to abstentions versus voter-suppression mesaures such as electoral-roll purges, overcrowded polling stations, fake challenges at the polls, etc.
I believe there was real, grassroots protests, and the people who were there genuinely, were easily manipulated by those who were there maliciously into literally fighting for the opposite thing that they wanted.
It would be impressive if it weren’t so goddamn depressing.
Online, on the other hand, agents provocateur everywhere. Plus more useful idiots who are now the ones who will either be an adult and admit they fucked up, or double and triple down on their mistake in order to preserve their ego (somewhat understandably so, as they seem to actually give a shit about Palestinian lives and now have to live with the role they played in escalating the genocide).
And to be clear, I consider myself an ardent supporter of Palestine in the genocide Israel is perpetrating. Which is exactly why I did the one small thing in my power that could have possibly done something to reduce that damage and not escalate the genocide (btw, a lot of people here are going to find out that genocide ≠ genocide ≠ genocide. In the worst way possible). And that was to vote for Harris.
If you want to find out what’s coming, just pick up a history book for once. A couple weeks too late, but at least you’ll learn why you fucked up.
You cannot call yourself an ardent supporter of Palestine while speaking about pro-Palestinian protesters like they are aliens or well-meaning idiots manipulated by unspecified malevolent forces. Anyone that is ardently pro-Palestinisn is at the protests, organizing actions, and speaks as a member of the community, not separate from it.
Please take some time to ask yourself whether you have the experience and knowledge required to talk on this topic.
Yeah, but they’ve stuck to their guns, and now they can stand proud next to the bodies, knowing they never compromised on their moral integrity.
We are not the ones complicit in this genocide. That is, in fact, those supporting the people committing genocide.
Please remember this statement when we see what exactly the Trump admin does to stop the genocide.
It’s not genocide if they aren’t people.
–Trump, Probably
The entire unhinged right wing has been declaring them UnPersons for decades. I remember in the 90s, possibly earlier, hearing wingers saying “Palestine is not even a country, it was made up by the libs/Muslims, using the term ‘Palestinian’ is talking nonsense”, and so on.
The Israelis have used that line since before 1948. Standard colonial cultural erasure.
Just to help illustrate.
“A land without a people for a people without a land” is an old Zionist settler colonial propaganda piece that is supported by Zionist liberals as well. This coincides with Israeli “culture”, which is a weird mix of vaguely European, vaguely Jewish-ish, and the appropriation of Levantine culture. For example, going around calling hummus and pita “Israeli foods”.
Given the stark difference in how Dems resoonded to the plight of Ukrainians vs. Palestinians, it’s clear that this is also the tacit Dem position and what upsets their voters is for it to be explicitly acknowledged.
Well, to all the folks arguing with me on how voting for Harris was bad because of Gaza: CONGRATULATIONS! You REALLY made a point there.
Yes, I hope you can take this time to internalize a lesson: you should not support genocide or genociders. The candidate and strategy that you embraced was a gamble tbat you could support genocide and still win the election if you just recycled enough bad faith talking points at the people who consistently oppose genocide.
As you can see, you were wrong. And yet here you are trying to blame others rather than learn this lesson. Do some self-criticism instead. I hope you can forgive yourself for supporting genocide for a cynical loser like Harris.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
Harris, of the Biden-Harris regime, has had an identical line to Biden’s during this 13 months of US-backed genocide. Unconditional material support and some empty rhetoric trying to PR handle their base rather than change policy.
What do you imagine when you say, “had a chance”? Is it the current mass civilian bombing campaigns? Children burned alive? Mass starvation and malnutrition? Those are the things you’ve gone to bat for, that is the realized vision of the Biden-Harris regime.
you did nothing or voted for genocide
The people voting for genocidal candidates like Harris or Trump voted for genocode. That was something you seem to have done, but not I.
You did it from the other side of the world, where you won’t have to suffer the consequences.
You cannot make your support for a genocider into an anti-privilege clapback. Do some self-criticism because this is gross.
Yes, I hope you can take this time to internalize a lesson: you should not support genocide or genociders.
Sorry, what exactly is the lesson to be learned from this election, in which the candidate who more vocally supports the genocide won? As in, showing more support for the genociding party and demonstratively siding in all points with the genociders with not even rhetorical pushback, just pure endorsement of the genocide? Which lesson will analysing this election yield again?
Sorry, what exactly is the lesson to be learned from this election, in which the candidate who more vocally supports the genocide won?
If it must be fully spelled out, it is that you cannot rope people whose politics is premised on empathy into supporting genocide and you will lose unless you demand better. If you want to fight against the forces of reaction, you cannot triangulate towards them, you have to actually have a semi-principled political program, not one premised on tokenization and “vote for us or the other guy will kill you even more”.
You seem to be wrong. Donald Trump didn’t demand better and he didn’t lose. The more pro-genocide party objectively won.
Those are the things you’ve gone to bat for, that is the realized vision of the Biden-Harris regime.
There’s a difference between making the best of a bad situation and going to bat for it. Your choices were someone who there is a chance of reigning in Israel or someone that told them to do whatever they want with weapons we send. The latter is obviously a bad choice unless you agree with Israel.
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Weird how repeatedly calling for an immediate cease fire and a two state solution in Israel = “genocide”.
March - https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1234822836/kamala-harris-benny-gantz-gaza-cease-fire-israel-hamas
“Monday’s meeting in Washington, D.C., comes one day after Harris called for an immediate, temporary cease-fire in Gaza to facilitate an exchange of Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Harris is expected to continue pressing Israel to pause the fighting and allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza.”
July - https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/25/harris-netanyahu-israel-cease-fire-00171315
“Vice President Kamala Harris met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in private Thursday and followed it with a strikingly forceful call on his government to get a cease-fire deal done and ease the suffering of civilians in Gaza.”
“Vice President Kamala Harris reiterated her call for a ceasefire-for-hostage deal in Gaza while expressing sympathy for both Israelis and Palestinians affected by the conflict. Harris condemned the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on southern Israel but said “far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed” by Israel’s ongoing military offensive in Gaza.”
Do you get something out of mis-representing what she said and did? Or were you just not actually paying attention?
So what is your solution be since Gaza is so important to you? Do you want to be absolved of your voting decision?
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
based on what data? You’re just making stuff up.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
No, they didn’t.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the night, buddy.
Right back atcha.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
Doubtful: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/15/biden-israel-gaza-palestine
One mention of Harris to say she’s not taking over for Biden
Harris had the exact same line on Israel as Biden and is literally part of the Biden-Harris administration.
There is no reason to think Harris would’ve been any different than Biden on this issue. She repeatedly said she was in agreement with Biden on this, i don’t care if it was during an election people need more to go on than the hope that she really feels different inside
That’s cool because Trump stance was even more extreme, but since he’s saying insane things every minute, no one batted an eye. But Harris had to be perfect. How do you even reconcile what you say with the reality you have in front of you.
Trump said in no uncertain terms that he would back Israel, he’s confirming it today and you still spout that “both sides” inane shit.
What more do you need to admit that your point is bullshit.
With Harris, there was a sliver of hope that there could be change and with Trump it was sure that Israel would do whatever it wanted. You look at that shitty situation all around, and you still think Harris was the worst choice versus the openly fascist dictator?
There is no sane universe where you can defend that point of view, yet here we are.
Palestine is fucked, good luck Ukraine, and fuck any American that isn’t white, Christian and straight I guess. But hey, both sides, right?
I think many people felt that Harris was a failure, just as they felt Biden was a failure. And she didn’t have to be.
Don’t run a bad candidate if you wanna win. This is common sense. And if you try anyway and lose, don’t blame others for it.
Why do Democrats have to field the perfect candidate while Republicans can run anyone and still win?
It fucking sucks that the DNC fielded a mid candidate, but let’s not put all the blame on them. It seems like the threat of Trump wasn’t big enough for Democrat voters to get out and vote. The guy that said that he would retaliate against his political opponents and would be a dictator from day one.
You know that you can vote for a candidate and still demand better from them after the election, right?
At one point, Americans will have to stop taking disagreements personally and unite.
Why do Democrats have to field the perfect candidate
You mean a genocide supporter?
Yeah, because Trump endlessly said they were failures and the corporate media unquestioningly repeated it.
But Harris had to be perfect.
Your idea of perfect is to not be a genocide supporter?
Every fucking thing she said was scrutinized, analyzed and critiqued/mocked while Trump would say the heinous unhinged shit and no one batted an eye.
That’s cool, you got what you want now and Gaza is becoming Israel new beach front. I hope you meet a Palestinian that got family killed someday and tell them that you didn’t support a genocide supporter. That’ll make them feel funny inside.
Every fucking thing she said was scrutinized […]
You are saying this in response to people saying they wouldn’t tolerate genocide.
That’s cool, you got what you want now and Gaza is becoming Israel new beach front.
There have been no policy changes. This is your ghouls running the show, 13 months of unconditional support for genocide. If any part of “the electorate” owns this, it is yours. You did not step up and say, “no more, that is too far”.
Though of course the party does not care about you and they are thr ones making these policy decisions with donor input.
I hope you meet a Palestinian that got family killed someday and tell them that you didn’t support a genocide supporter.
I already know many Palestinians that have lost family. I organize with some of them, their views are my views on this. You clearly aren’t embedded in this community because you assume everyone else is just as detached.
That’ll make them feel funny inside.
Palestinians are not your rhetorical toy to play with when you run out of ways to handle your cognitive dissonance for having sold your soul to support someone that lost anyways. Please take some time to do self-criticism now that you have objective proof that you were not being strategic or smart about this, as you clearly gave up on being morally correct.
But Harris had to be perfect.
You’re lying again. No one asked for perfect. They asked for neutral instead of aiding far right wing terrorists. All she had to do was follow our existing laws and stop the shipments. Its not a lot.
The second that Harris breathed wrong, news were all over it, while Trump had the “what he said might put him in trouble” while spouting racist and/or fascist non-stop.
But now it’s futile. You got what you deserve.
as did you.
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There are no restrictions to lift, but I guess it makes a good sound bite, even if its utter nonsense.
https://www.reuters.com/world/no-us-conditions-security-assistance-israel-austin-says-2023-10-12/
I think you will find out exactly what he means… I think you already know, but are lying to yourself.
The Biden-Harris regime used this as a rhetorical fig leaf and Trump will not. No policy changes, no material changes on this. It is just different propaganda angles to keep doing the same thing.
The problem is not military restrictions. Biden did not have any either. The problem is recognition of annexed territories. We see how Israel is clearing out the northern part of Gaza and they are already talking about annexing the West Bank. We are likely to see a lot more violence in the West Bank soon. My guess is parts of Jerusalem and Jericho being in focus.
The problem is recognition of annexed territories.
Don’t look too hard at Harris’s pick for VP if this is the pretext for “we’re not as bad” that you’re clinging to
Yeah didn’t he call for the creation of “greater israel” in the region or something?
Did you know the Democrats are the first party to have a Palestinian-American woman elected as a member of Congress? Her name is Rashida Tlaib, and Israel has banned her from entering their country, and Marjory Taylor PieceofShit attempted to pass a resolution censuring her for her criticism of Israel.
Hm, I wonder if any of the “anti-genocide” assholes ever stopped to think about Rashida, and whether she would have wanted Democrats to sit out this election or vote Green. I wonder if they understand anything at all.
Tlaib has generally been the sole voice against US support for Israel in Congress and very publicly refused to endorse Harris days before the election.
She got nearly twice the support in her district as Harris did.
Hm, I wonder if any of the “anti-genocide” assholes ever stopped to think about Rashida, and whether she would have wanted Democrats to sit out this election or vote Green.
When you definitely know Tlaib’s positions lmao
Incredibly chauvinistic to use her as a talking point and put your own positions into her mouth without listening to anything she says.
She publically refused to endorse Harris days before the election. Are you ignorant or deliberately spreading misinformation?
Trump will enable any genocide the Israelis commit, and loudly gloat over it.
But yeah, both sides are the same…
As opposed to enabling any genocide the Israelis commit and unconvincingly pretending to wag his finger at them, like Biden is still doing.
You have correctly identified the relevant difference: rhetorical approach.
Biden-Harris: feigned concern and “ceasefire” claims while providing unconditional support for the genocide.
Trump: no feigned concern or “ceasefire” claims while (presumably) providing unconditional support for the genocide.
But this difference means nothing materially, of course. If someone punches you with a smile on their face do you thank them for it?
Yes. Now make sure you stand in front of a mirror once a day and say that out loud so you actually start to believe it.
To pretend that Biden did not deliver weapons to Israel used for a genocide, but Trump will make it even worse? I just need to read the news for that. No need for a mirror.
The Biden-Harris regime has provided, unconditionally, the material snd diplomatic support needed for Israel to carry out this genocide. If you support them, you are complicit.
Who should look in the mirror?
If you support them, you are complicit.
He knows and revels in it.
