The New York Times is one of the newspapers of record for the United States. However, it’s history of running stories with poor sourcing, insufficient evidence, and finding journalists with conflicts of interest undermines it’s credibility when reporting on international issues and matters of foreign policy.
Late last year, the NYT ran a story titled ‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7. Recently, outlets like The Intercept, Jacobin, Democracy Now! , Mondoweiss, and others have revealed the implicit and explicit bias against Palestine that’s apparent both in the aforementioned NYT story and in the NYT’s reporting at large. By obfuscating poor sources, running stories without evidence, and using an ex-IDF officer with no journalism experience as the author, the NYT demonstrates their disregard for common journalistic practice. This has led to inaccurate and demonstrably false reporting on critical issues in today’s world, which has been used to justify the lack of American pressure against Israel to the American public.
This journalistic malpractice is not unusual from the NYT. One of the keystone stories since the turn of the century was the NYT’s reporting on Iraq’s pursuit of WMDs: U.S. SAYS HUSSEIN INTENSIFIES QUEST FOR A-BOMB PARTS, Defectors Bolster U.S. Case Against Iraq, Officials Say, Illicit Arms Kept Till Eve of War, An Iraqi Scientist Is Said to Assert. These reports were later revealed to be false, and the NYT later apologized, but not before the reporting was used as justification to launch the War on Iraq, directly leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands and indirectly causing millions of death while also destabilizing the region for decades.
These landmark stories have had a massive influence on US foreign policy, but they’re founded on lies. While stories published in the NYT do accurately reflect foreign policy aims of the US government, they are not founded in fact. The NYT uses lies to drum up public support for otherwise unpopular foreign policy decisions. In most places, we call that “government propaganda.”
I think reading and understanding propaganda is an important element of media literacy, and so I’m not calling for the ban of NYT articles in this community. However, I am calling for an honest discussion on media literacy and it’s relation to the New York Times.
Topically, CNN did an article on that whole New York Times scandal, and they kept saying how there’s definitely a lot of evidence for that mass rape story. They just wish the NYT would report it better. And then they linked back to their own piece and The Guardian’s copy-paste job of the same hoax the NYT made up. 🤡
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The New York times is highly credentialed and has more pulitzers than any other newspaper.
Sure, sometimes they don’t get it right, but that doesn’t mean they’re not a damn good source for journalism.Regarding the WMD thing, was it proven the Times was aware of the mistakes and published anyway? Or were they also deceived by the government like everyone else?
Not everyone fell for the lies. It’s a re-writing of history to suggest that everyone was all aboard with the war in Iraq. That war was preceded by the largest protests ever to occur up until that point. I personally recall Hans Blix, the UN official responsible for weapons inspections in Iraq at that time, repeatedly telling us that there was no evidence of such weapons programs. The New York Times should presumably be at least as questioning as my, at the time, 18 year old self. Particularly since I turned out to be right.
Good context to have!
I’m not commenting on this particular case because I’m uninformed, the Times very well could have completely shit the bed here.
But one difference between a news outlet and an every day citizen is that a news outlet pretty much has to report on what the government’s position is. If the white house claims there are WMD’s, that’s something the public needs to know. Of course the language around how that gets presented is everything!
It sounds like there was too much blind trust in that statement and the language didn’t leave enough room for scepticism in this particular case. But it’s worth remembering that in other cases there’s a difference between towing the line and reporting words as a statement of fact. The fact being that the words were said but not necessarily that the words are true.
It’s very easy to forget how powerfully and unilaterally the government acts when manufacturing consent. Every control is exerted. The mainstream media a brought to heel. Dissenters are marginalised.
Bush and Blair were ruthless in this respect, over Iraq. A British government office, David Kelly, killed himself over it .
The people who own the NYT are not deceived by the government, they collude with the government. In the words of George Carlin, it’s one big club, and you ain’t in it.
I forgot the name of the specific tactic, but basically what the Bush administration did was leak unsourced information to the NYT and then after the NYT published it, the Bush administration used the NYT as source for the unproven claim. They did this multiple times. The NYT was knowingly used to launder lies that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths. And they are doing it again.
Think of how many Palestinians have been brutalized as a result of these heinous accusations. The fact that they canceled the Daily episode about this piece indicates that they knew something was fishy. The NYT is complicit.
And finally does it matter if they are either comically inept, or criminally evil. It has the same effect on the world and there should be consequences for their actions.
Stovepiping
They were aware the reporting was wrong and buried stories questioning the official line.
Alright, so while you’re totes cool with posting links to a “news agency” controlled by the Iranian government, you have a bone to pick with the NYT? C’mon man, either you need to touch grass or you’re actually on the payroll for Iran.
Gonna go ahead and label this user as “Iranian Propagandist” and move on with my life, and I suggest that others do too.
You’re saying… A member of BRICS is an unreliable source of news for news about BRICS membership?
Alright, so while you’re totes cool with posting links to a “news agency” controlled by the Iranian government, you have a bone to pick with the NYT?
But these things are irrelevant. They could still post “propaganda sites” and NYT could still also be wrong.
buddy read the article you’re posting
read it carefully
then ask yourself why an Iranian news agency might make sense for that news
It’s a simpler: don’t trust strangers on the internet.
Your lemmy memories should be preceded by: I heard through Lemmy
I do the NY Times crossword, that Is my whole interaction with the NY Times. I find it enjoyable.
The core of your argument seems to be 2 separate incidents that are 20 years apart. The WMD article series is one of many series that were released by different outlets at the time because the Whitehouse did make such claims.
I don’t know enough about the most recent article to form a serious opinion, but I did read the intercept link you posted and it appears to be entirely sourced by an interview with somebody who was fired for expressing bias outside of work. I also clicked the democracy now link and its just a paragraph stating that the intercept wrote the article in the first link but doesn’t provide anything else.
I’m not sure these two incidents are enough of an indictment against the NYT to sway me at all. News outlets get it wrong sometimes. The question is how they handle it afterwards and 2 incidents in 20 years is hardly a pattern. The NYT is definitely leaning slightly left but is generally considered to be highly factual by most fact checkers that I’ve seen.
There is also the whole Transphobia thing where they do things like consistently interview people who run organizations classified as hate groups as “concerned parents” and who’s front page stories have been cited in Texas courts as evidence that allowing trans kids gender affirming care is seen by medical professionals as child abuse.
You’ve also got their coverage of the 2016 election, where it’s a matter of settled fact that they slept on an FBI investigation of Trump for things we now know actually happened while putting Clinton’s emails on the front page at every opportunity.
You’ve also got them giving a platform to dreck like this - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/27/opinion/immigration-stephen-miller.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur - which includes lovely bits like “The foreign-born share of the U.S. population is near a record high, and increased diversity and the distrust it sows have clearly put stresses on our politics.”
I’m not one of those people who has accumulated an entire drawer full of examples and is able to provide you with 400 bullet points of what’s wrong with the NYT, but maybe two more will help push you to investigate a bit more? The NYT may publish left-leaning content sometimes, but they are not an actual ally of the Democrats, let alone the progressive or far left. They routinely publish Republican lies uncritically, and their perception as left-leaning is one of their best weapons.
Most fact checkers don’t know shit. Fact is, these two stories have been used to justify conflicts where hundreds of thousands of people have died.
I think fact checkers are more reliable that the intercept article you posted, myself.
Surely, then, your fact checkers will mention the NYT’s failure of reporting on Iraq’s WMDs in their fact checks?
Oh. They don’t? I wonder why.
I’m genuinely not sure what you’re hoping to accomplish with that argument.
The fact checkers call them on that stuff, yes. The reliability ratings are based partially on how the editors react when they get it wrong and the NYT pretty famously apologizes and publishes updates when it happens.
Like it or not, the New York Times holds the status of “Newspaper of Record”, which elevates them above traditional news sources.
Now, as such, it’s fair to say they should be held to a higher standard than, say, your local Fox affilliate. But by the same token you can’t just discount them despite their problems both past and current. Thinking specifically of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/may/26/pressandpublishing.usnews
https://theintercept.com/2023/03/30/new-york-times-iraq-war-error/
I agree on this. For better or for worse, the NYT is representative of US news media to the world.
As much as it pains me to say this, 2003 was more than 2 decades ago.
What’s your point?
People change
An important facet of examining any topic is establishing a patern of behavior for those involved, whether institution or individual. The NYT complicity in the Invasion of Iraq and the subsequent crimes committed there is entirely relevant to the topic of the the NYT complicity in the genocide of Palestine.
Additionally it is laughable to pretend that Iraq is somehow ancient history when the occupation is still ongoing!
New York Times sold the lie that Iraq had WMDs.
That is all you need to know about the NYT.
NYT definitely has issues in their reporting. At the same time, keep in mind that Mondoweiss and Intercept have their own biases.
A bias is not the same as hiring an IDF soldier to write propaganda articles
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But muh Media Bias/Fact Check says it checks out!
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/contact/
Dave M. Van Zandt obtained a Communications Degree before pursuing a higher degree in the sciences. Dave currently works full time in the health care industry. Dave has spent more than 20 years as an arm chair researcher on media bias and its role in political influence.
Van Zandt is some hobbyist who was in the right place at the right time: the “post-truth” moment of Clinton’s loss to Trump and the string of Russiagate conspiracy theories and Kellyanne Conway’s alternative facts and the Cambridge Analytica hysteria.
The whole concept of the “left” or ”right“ “bias” being inversely correlated with factualness is garbage. These kinds of graphs, which try to convince us that centrism equals factualness, are garbage:
The core bias of corporate media is the bias of the capitalist class, but people like Van Zandt don’t seem to understand this.
The inner workings of corporate media were explained about forty years ago in Inventing Reality and Manufacturing Consent.
A five minute introduction: Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media MachineHere is an alternative Piped link(s):
Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Has he changed his blurb? It used to say:
This curiosity led him to pursue a Communications Degree in college; however, like most 20-year olds he didn’t know what he wanted and changed to a Physiology major midstream.
Implying that he changed to Physiology before graduating, and that his “higher degree” is a Bachelor’s.
Any western media outlet writing a pro israel or anti Palestine article citing “anonymous sources” or not providing evidence should instantly be deleted.
The podcast You’re Wrong About reached a similar conclusion re: the Times’ coverage of trans issues: https://youtu.be/Fq5YmS1R63Q?si=e086MXq6pKfFo4ex
it’s history
This is where I stopped reading the commentary about poorly-written articles.
