That sounds like something your dad should communicate better about, and maybe talk with a therapist about? I think you should spend time with your grandpa if that’s what you want to do. Your dad’s discomfort with how you dress is a him problem. You wanted to dress up nice today presumably to help you to feel good about yourself, so don’t let him take that from you :)
I already thought it was pretty weird of him when I misunderstood and thought you were saying something akin to “I live in his house so I feel compelled to abide by his weird rules.” Now that it’s clear that you don’t live under his roof, it’s extra weird.
I know nothing about your relationship with your dad, so I hope this is just one weird thing on an unusual day. If there’s a kind of pattern to him passive aggressively being shitty or toxic to you, I think it’d be a good idea to sit down with him and have a conversation about it. You don’t want to stew over a thousand grievances you’ve bottled up and let slide just to blow up on him and wind up estranged. I think that (if there actually is a pattern and I’m not saying that there is one,) it would be better to address concerns as adults and find a way to make the relationship fair to you. You are not a child anymore, so don’t play into unreasonable guilt trips for standing up for your own comfort, respect, and happiness. Again, I truly hope that none of this applies to you, but it’s an absolute fact that some parents are toxic assholes who can’t come to terms with the fact that their adult children do not exist solely to serve them anymore. It sounds like you probably already know how to stand up for yourself, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to throw my two cents in on the off chance that you actually are being manipulated and emotionally abused and didn’t realize it.
There’s a pattern, but for now it’s …mostly tolerable? He’s a bigot; he’s homophobic towards my sister and he’s homophobic and transphobic towards me. To confront him… I don’t expect I would have any better outcome than “my house my rules”, and my whole (big) family is pretty close. I would miss seeing everyone as often since he’s the one who hosts us every week.
I’ve stayed away a lot more since I came out and he started being a dick about it than I ever did before, but it’s hard. It’s hard to make time to see my sisters and brothers and my mom, especially when they all already see each other pretty much every week at his house. So I kowtow and let him pretend that I’m his son instead of his daughter. Until I need some space from it, which might just be now, again.
I’m really sorry. That sounds like it’s stressful in a setting that ought to feel welcoming and safe. I don’t know your experience, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have to assume that your dad would rather have you in his life as his daughter than to be estranged from his “son”. If I were him, that’s how I’d feel. Is it crazy to suggest that you ask him for some one on one time to talk this out and you could make it clear that this isn’t some phase or anything and that this is who you are regardless of whether he accepts you this way or not? Like, you are his child and you want to have a supportive father in your life to have your back, and he should want to help his child whether they’re his son or his daughter.
Is there an interest you both share? Both fans of a sports team, interested in a specific hobby, into the same music genre, etc? Maybe getting together to hang out in that context could be a good avenue to remind him that he wants quality time with you, and then you could bring up the real talk. I imagine pretty much every activity you could conceivably be interested in sharing with him is not dependant on your gender identity, so it stands to reason that hanging out shouldn’t be conditional based on that, so he should be willing to jump into that activity with his child, regardless of that. I guess my point is that there may be a way to illustrate that this is not something that should matter to him in any way whatsoever, and he can have pretty much the exact relationship with you that he wants if he can just shut the fuck up and stop being weird about this lol. And if he can’t deal with that, I think you’re totally right to back off and take some space from him for a while like you were saying.
I have to assume that your dad would rather have you in his life as his daughter than to be estranged from his “son”.
I’m …honestly not convinced he would. And even if he would, I don’t really trust his ability to have that conversation charitably. Maybe that’s not fair to him, but…
Is there an interest you both share?
I was honestly pondering that question myself the other day and not a lot. He’s interested in sports (mostly hockey and basketball) while I’m not really at all. When I’ve tried to engage and watch a game with him, if I, like, ask a question or something he just gets frustrated and annoyed that I’m interrupting. And don’t get me started on how he reacts if I say “good play” or something for the wrong team (mind, the only team I know isn’t “wrong” is the broncos and he watches, like, every game from everyone)… Ask that even before my transition, let alone now.
He used to play games, but I don’t think he’s honestly done any gaming in like 20 years. He doesn’t hate, like, party games, but if it’s a party it’s already not a great time for “real talk”.
He has an interest in, like, politics and such. But he’s pretty much totally conservative, still denies climate change kind of thing. So that’s not a great way to have a nice chat with him either.
Unless there’s something I’m missing, it sounds like you’re implying that you both might be in a better place if you had less of a relationship together. I’m sure you have a better relationship with other family members and want to maintain them, and it’s probably not really possible to do that while also not seeing your dad, but I’m not sure I’d want to set foot in that house if I felt like my dad would prefer that I not exist rather than be who I am. Maybe he doesn’t actually feel that way, or maybe he does but hasn’t heard those words out loud and would be shaken by you telling him that that’s how he’s making you feel.
Idk, I think I would try one last conversation with him about how you are feeling and you can make the effort to try to understand how he is feeling. I’m sure he’s generally feeling pretty conflicted because his political identity is maybe the only Identity he really has anymore, and the only group that is really accepting him is also sending marching orders that his children are the scary enemy. I assume he is surrounded by that sort of messaging all day every day, and he only sees you occasionally. I’m not excusing him or blaming you. It just adds up that there is a sort of tug of war going on and you’re losing your dad to it. Faced with this perspective, if he is decent, he will understand that he’s gonna need to choose to either betray his family to remain entrenched in his hateful little boys club or he can at the very least put his political identity on hold to keep his family in his life. I don’t like ultimatums, but I don’t really understand what either of you is getting out of continuing this relationship at all if there aren’t changes. Your gender identity isn’t a choice, but his political identity is, so the onus is on him to make most of the change here. And conservatives by definition do not like change, so if he puts effort in then he should get some credit. He doesn’t necessarily need to donate to LGBTQ+ causes or join marches or anything like that, but he does need to make you personally feel accepted as a child that he loves, and he needs to make you feel welcome for visits for mom’s birthday or a summer cookout or whatever once in a while. I don’t think that’s asking too much of him. This shouldn’t even be a difficult decision, but it will be because he’s so deep in this shit.
And if he can’t or won’t meet you there, I think you’re well within your rights to cut him out. Invite your mom to come to you for her birthday. Host your own summer cookout and invite everybody but him. It’s not your responsibility to pull his head out of his bigoted ass, which is good because it’s really not worth the amount of stress it would take to yank him free from that cult. But maybe when he sees that his hate group is causing him to be excluded from family events, he will not like how isolated he is. And if not, who gives a shit, you’ll be doing fine without his criticisms either way.
Much love and I’m sorry that your dad is a dickhead <3
He’s not quite as bad as all that. He’s an ass, but he’s self aware enough to at least see when he’ll be perceived as the unreasonable one and back off. I honestly don’t have much of a relationship with him at all at this point, beyond saying hi and bye. My family has what most would consider a big get together every week, my nine siblings mostly showing up with their double digits of kids, all hanging out and having dinner. Without that, I lose a rather large portion of my small introverted social circle.
Mostly, I’ll stick with going when I’m comfortable and leaving when I feel disrespected. It’s shitty, but it’s something. And I can continue growing my circle elsewhere too. Joined a game night group, I see my friends from next city over every now and again. I’ll do okay.
That sounds like something your dad should communicate better about, and maybe talk with a therapist about? I think you should spend time with your grandpa if that’s what you want to do. Your dad’s discomfort with how you dress is a him problem. You wanted to dress up nice today presumably to help you to feel good about yourself, so don’t let him take that from you :)
Thanks. I did end up changing, but only because I had to go home for a minute for other reasons.
He is the king of “sounds like a personal problem,” so you’re right that it isn’t my job to fix how he feels
I already thought it was pretty weird of him when I misunderstood and thought you were saying something akin to “I live in his house so I feel compelled to abide by his weird rules.” Now that it’s clear that you don’t live under his roof, it’s extra weird.
I know nothing about your relationship with your dad, so I hope this is just one weird thing on an unusual day. If there’s a kind of pattern to him passive aggressively being shitty or toxic to you, I think it’d be a good idea to sit down with him and have a conversation about it. You don’t want to stew over a thousand grievances you’ve bottled up and let slide just to blow up on him and wind up estranged. I think that (if there actually is a pattern and I’m not saying that there is one,) it would be better to address concerns as adults and find a way to make the relationship fair to you. You are not a child anymore, so don’t play into unreasonable guilt trips for standing up for your own comfort, respect, and happiness. Again, I truly hope that none of this applies to you, but it’s an absolute fact that some parents are toxic assholes who can’t come to terms with the fact that their adult children do not exist solely to serve them anymore. It sounds like you probably already know how to stand up for yourself, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to throw my two cents in on the off chance that you actually are being manipulated and emotionally abused and didn’t realize it.
Have a great rest of your day!
There’s a pattern, but for now it’s …mostly tolerable? He’s a bigot; he’s homophobic towards my sister and he’s homophobic and transphobic towards me. To confront him… I don’t expect I would have any better outcome than “my house my rules”, and my whole (big) family is pretty close. I would miss seeing everyone as often since he’s the one who hosts us every week.
I’ve stayed away a lot more since I came out and he started being a dick about it than I ever did before, but it’s hard. It’s hard to make time to see my sisters and brothers and my mom, especially when they all already see each other pretty much every week at his house. So I kowtow and let him pretend that I’m his son instead of his daughter. Until I need some space from it, which might just be now, again.
I’m really sorry. That sounds like it’s stressful in a setting that ought to feel welcoming and safe. I don’t know your experience, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have to assume that your dad would rather have you in his life as his daughter than to be estranged from his “son”. If I were him, that’s how I’d feel. Is it crazy to suggest that you ask him for some one on one time to talk this out and you could make it clear that this isn’t some phase or anything and that this is who you are regardless of whether he accepts you this way or not? Like, you are his child and you want to have a supportive father in your life to have your back, and he should want to help his child whether they’re his son or his daughter.
Is there an interest you both share? Both fans of a sports team, interested in a specific hobby, into the same music genre, etc? Maybe getting together to hang out in that context could be a good avenue to remind him that he wants quality time with you, and then you could bring up the real talk. I imagine pretty much every activity you could conceivably be interested in sharing with him is not dependant on your gender identity, so it stands to reason that hanging out shouldn’t be conditional based on that, so he should be willing to jump into that activity with his child, regardless of that. I guess my point is that there may be a way to illustrate that this is not something that should matter to him in any way whatsoever, and he can have pretty much the exact relationship with you that he wants if he can just shut the fuck up and stop being weird about this lol. And if he can’t deal with that, I think you’re totally right to back off and take some space from him for a while like you were saying.
I’m …honestly not convinced he would. And even if he would, I don’t really trust his ability to have that conversation charitably. Maybe that’s not fair to him, but…
I was honestly pondering that question myself the other day and not a lot. He’s interested in sports (mostly hockey and basketball) while I’m not really at all. When I’ve tried to engage and watch a game with him, if I, like, ask a question or something he just gets frustrated and annoyed that I’m interrupting. And don’t get me started on how he reacts if I say “good play” or something for the wrong team (mind, the only team I know isn’t “wrong” is the broncos and he watches, like, every game from everyone)… Ask that even before my transition, let alone now.
He used to play games, but I don’t think he’s honestly done any gaming in like 20 years. He doesn’t hate, like, party games, but if it’s a party it’s already not a great time for “real talk”.
He has an interest in, like, politics and such. But he’s pretty much totally conservative, still denies climate change kind of thing. So that’s not a great way to have a nice chat with him either.
Unless there’s something I’m missing, it sounds like you’re implying that you both might be in a better place if you had less of a relationship together. I’m sure you have a better relationship with other family members and want to maintain them, and it’s probably not really possible to do that while also not seeing your dad, but I’m not sure I’d want to set foot in that house if I felt like my dad would prefer that I not exist rather than be who I am. Maybe he doesn’t actually feel that way, or maybe he does but hasn’t heard those words out loud and would be shaken by you telling him that that’s how he’s making you feel.
Idk, I think I would try one last conversation with him about how you are feeling and you can make the effort to try to understand how he is feeling. I’m sure he’s generally feeling pretty conflicted because his political identity is maybe the only Identity he really has anymore, and the only group that is really accepting him is also sending marching orders that his children are the scary enemy. I assume he is surrounded by that sort of messaging all day every day, and he only sees you occasionally. I’m not excusing him or blaming you. It just adds up that there is a sort of tug of war going on and you’re losing your dad to it. Faced with this perspective, if he is decent, he will understand that he’s gonna need to choose to either betray his family to remain entrenched in his hateful little boys club or he can at the very least put his political identity on hold to keep his family in his life. I don’t like ultimatums, but I don’t really understand what either of you is getting out of continuing this relationship at all if there aren’t changes. Your gender identity isn’t a choice, but his political identity is, so the onus is on him to make most of the change here. And conservatives by definition do not like change, so if he puts effort in then he should get some credit. He doesn’t necessarily need to donate to LGBTQ+ causes or join marches or anything like that, but he does need to make you personally feel accepted as a child that he loves, and he needs to make you feel welcome for visits for mom’s birthday or a summer cookout or whatever once in a while. I don’t think that’s asking too much of him. This shouldn’t even be a difficult decision, but it will be because he’s so deep in this shit.
And if he can’t or won’t meet you there, I think you’re well within your rights to cut him out. Invite your mom to come to you for her birthday. Host your own summer cookout and invite everybody but him. It’s not your responsibility to pull his head out of his bigoted ass, which is good because it’s really not worth the amount of stress it would take to yank him free from that cult. But maybe when he sees that his hate group is causing him to be excluded from family events, he will not like how isolated he is. And if not, who gives a shit, you’ll be doing fine without his criticisms either way.
Much love and I’m sorry that your dad is a dickhead <3
He’s not quite as bad as all that. He’s an ass, but he’s self aware enough to at least see when he’ll be perceived as the unreasonable one and back off. I honestly don’t have much of a relationship with him at all at this point, beyond saying hi and bye. My family has what most would consider a big get together every week, my nine siblings mostly showing up with their double digits of kids, all hanging out and having dinner. Without that, I lose a rather large portion of my small introverted social circle.
Mostly, I’ll stick with going when I’m comfortable and leaving when I feel disrespected. It’s shitty, but it’s something. And I can continue growing my circle elsewhere too. Joined a game night group, I see my friends from next city over every now and again. I’ll do okay.