I feel like wishing people to die at all is a pretty immoral stance, but you obviously have your own version of morality where killing people is justifiable, so you do you I guess.
In a hypothetical where there’s a murderer with a machine gun killing children that will not be prosecuted in court then wishing them to be dead is pretty reasonable if you want the killing to stop.
Not saying killing is moral or that people don’t have the right to live because they do but how else would you stop the murder if the government doesn’t?
The problem with this line of thinking is that both sides think that the other is the murderer with the machine gun. If the Palestinians think it’s justified to kill Israelis because they think that they have the analogical machine gun, what stops the Israelis from thinking it’s justified to kill Palestinians because they think that they have the machine gun? If killing is deemed a reasonable way to get killing to stop, then it’s just a matter of rhetoric that distinguishes legitimate from illegitimate killing, and that rhetoric can just as easily be turned against the very people who now support it.
That’s a lot of words to avoid acknowledging your own moral corruption for openly calling for people to be killed. Go troll someone else, you hateful, violent prick.
Your ability to admit you don’t understand it is a big step.
Now you just need to address your previous commenters in the same light, with the questions you’ve been asked and are too afraid to answer.
We believe in you, champ.
You’re literally in a thread about a guy cheering for the death of others and you’ve decided to troll the guy saying that killing is morally wrong. How can you say this shit with a straight face?
I don’t answer your questions because you’re disingenuous in asking them. Palestinians kill Israelis, giving them a justification for killing the Palestinians, which they do, giving the Palestinians a justification for killing Israelis. Either killing others because they are killing you is justified, or it’s not. But if you’re going to argue that it’s justified, then it’s justified for everyone. When you pick and choose which killers’ justifications you want to defend, you’re disguising a distinction that’s not really rooted in the act of killing, but in some other criterion (racism, maybe?).
If one side kills 100 for each one of their own killed there’s a big difference. Other factors to consider is when your land is blocked off from the outside world by land, sea and air and being routinely invaded. The Geneva convention says there is a right to resist occupation on top of that which Israel did sign.
I’m not even necessarily talking about the current situation here.
I’m asking you, where your line in the sand is.
If someone was in your home, threatening your life, or your loved one’s lives, and they absolutely were not empty threats, would violence to the point of killing be “justified”?
For example, should the Ukrainians not defend their sovereignty, on their own soil, because killing at all is immoral?
You came at this with a black and white statement, but there are nuances to the world that shape the decisions outside of a binary “they killed/didn’t kill”
I’m sure no one here wishes that anyone HAD to die. Most ethical systems throughout history have a moral justification for killing, if the death will prevent further killing of innocent people. If it’s immoral to kill someone actively murdering children and about to murder more, are you saying it would be preferable to let the children be killed?
Sounds like the same kind of justification that all killers use to convince themselves that their actions aren’t fundamentally morally corrupt. Maybe you have more in common with the Israelis than you’d like to admit
You aren’t clever, trying to say we shouldn’t kill Nazis in a war against Nazis.
This isn’t rhetorical, tell me. If someone is about to shoot a child, and the only way we could stop them is through military action, what would you do?
If a Palestinian is going to kill an Israeli child, and the only way to stop them is through military actions, would the Israelis be justified for killing them? You’re disingenuous to say that this isn’t rhetorical when you’re invoking the exact same rhetoric as justification for killing Israelis as the Israelis invoke as justification for killing Palestinians. If you have no sense that killing is absolutely wrong, then every act of killing is justifiable given a sympathetic perspective, which I simply don’t agree with. But if your morality lets you think that killing is justified, then that’s something you’ll just have to live with.
You avoided my question, I would like to know your answer, not some idealist moralizing. I am saying my question isn’t rhetorical because I want to know what you would suggest we do to stop a genocide that doesn’t entail any violence at all. I am genuinely curious! I am Buddhist, I agree killing is wrong and don’t even kill ants or flies.
Israel is commiting genocide against Palestine. They are shooting and bombing dozens of children and women every single day, while starving all of Gaza and letting them die of preventable illness. Tell me how many Israeli children have been killed in the war today? If a Palestinian is about to shoot a child whether in Israel or anywhere, someone would be justified in stopping them. But that is not the situation. Israel has pinned Gazans into a deathtrap with no food, water, and hardly any healthcare system remaining, now using ‘aid’ centers to further their indiscriminate murder.
If any killing at all is wrong, then you would suggest people sat by and watch the Nazis finish the holocaust, because it would have been wrong to fight back?
Again, I haven’t avoided your question. Your question was asked as part of a bad faith rhetorical strategy to reframe the issue. The plain fact of the matter is, you have two groups killing each other while claiming that their killing is justified as preventative. If that’s true, then any preventative killing is justifiable, because it just becomes a matter of perspective, and your entire argument against the Israelis could just be reversed to justify for them.
You haven’t answered it though, I am actually asking, why do you assume bad faith? One of my goals in life in general is to understand different viewpoints. But I see now you deny there is a genocide ongoing, so of course any action would be wrong to you because you think this is just a typical war.
It’s not a matter of perspective, there is endless footage, documentation, corpses to see, to prove the genocide, and no reputable scholar denies Israel is commiting genocide. If you believe this is all a matter of perspective then you are choosing to live in a false constructed reality.
You see, you have made a lot of claims there that are completely irrelevant to the discussion, because your disingenuous rhetorical position doesn’t allow you to actually address the real issues. I guess I will now claim that you also deny that there’s a genocide ongoing, because you’ve said nothing of the sort and apparently making wild claims without any basis in fact is part of legitimate dialogue in your mind? Please get real.
You almost have a point but to get there you have to ignore the entire actual context of the conflict. It’s not just killing because of killing, there’s an entire ongoing expansionist colonial project making one party clearly the aggressor.
I feel like wishing people to die at all is a pretty immoral stance, but you obviously have your own version of morality where killing people is justifiable, so you do you I guess.
In a hypothetical where there’s a murderer with a machine gun killing children that will not be prosecuted in court then wishing them to be dead is pretty reasonable if you want the killing to stop.
Not saying killing is moral or that people don’t have the right to live because they do but how else would you stop the murder if the government doesn’t?
The problem with this line of thinking is that both sides think that the other is the murderer with the machine gun. If the Palestinians think it’s justified to kill Israelis because they think that they have the analogical machine gun, what stops the Israelis from thinking it’s justified to kill Palestinians because they think that they have the machine gun? If killing is deemed a reasonable way to get killing to stop, then it’s just a matter of rhetoric that distinguishes legitimate from illegitimate killing, and that rhetoric can just as easily be turned against the very people who now support it.
So in your mindset, there’s zero point where killing is “justifiable”?
I’m legitimately asking here.
In a perfect world, people would respect boundaries, not start war, or genocides to further their own beliefs.
What do you propose people facing extinction do? Parlay?
That’s a lot of words to avoid acknowledging your own moral corruption for openly calling for people to be killed. Go troll someone else, you hateful, violent prick.
Jesus, those are some thoroughly piss-soaked chips you’ve got there, petal.
Wow, if that’s an attempt at a coherent thought, you’ve got a long way to go.
Your ability to admit you don’t understand it is a big step. Now you just need to address your previous commenters in the same light, with the questions you’ve been asked and are too afraid to answer. We believe in you, champ.
Nice attempt at trolling. Try not cheering for people to be killed before you get up on your high horse.
Ahhhh, I get it. No instances of me cheering at the death of others, so the other party has to fake the argument. Petty, and a pity.
Come now, you’ve started discourse with others, you really ought to answer their questions.
You’re literally in a thread about a guy cheering for the death of others and you’ve decided to troll the guy saying that killing is morally wrong. How can you say this shit with a straight face?
Troll? You haven’t answered either of my questions? Lmao. Not everything is black and white my guy.
Again, I am legitimately curious what your opinions about this are.
You can sling insults all you want. It doesn’t further your argument in any legitimate way.
I don’t answer your questions because you’re disingenuous in asking them. Palestinians kill Israelis, giving them a justification for killing the Palestinians, which they do, giving the Palestinians a justification for killing Israelis. Either killing others because they are killing you is justified, or it’s not. But if you’re going to argue that it’s justified, then it’s justified for everyone. When you pick and choose which killers’ justifications you want to defend, you’re disguising a distinction that’s not really rooted in the act of killing, but in some other criterion (racism, maybe?).
If one side kills 100 for each one of their own killed there’s a big difference. Other factors to consider is when your land is blocked off from the outside world by land, sea and air and being routinely invaded. The Geneva convention says there is a right to resist occupation on top of that which Israel did sign.
I am not disingenuous in asking them.
I’m not even necessarily talking about the current situation here.
I’m asking you, where your line in the sand is.
If someone was in your home, threatening your life, or your loved one’s lives, and they absolutely were not empty threats, would violence to the point of killing be “justified”?
For example, should the Ukrainians not defend their sovereignty, on their own soil, because killing at all is immoral?
You came at this with a black and white statement, but there are nuances to the world that shape the decisions outside of a binary “they killed/didn’t kill”
I’m sure no one here wishes that anyone HAD to die. Most ethical systems throughout history have a moral justification for killing, if the death will prevent further killing of innocent people. If it’s immoral to kill someone actively murdering children and about to murder more, are you saying it would be preferable to let the children be killed?
Sounds like the same kind of justification that all killers use to convince themselves that their actions aren’t fundamentally morally corrupt. Maybe you have more in common with the Israelis than you’d like to admit
You aren’t clever, trying to say we shouldn’t kill Nazis in a war against Nazis.
This isn’t rhetorical, tell me. If someone is about to shoot a child, and the only way we could stop them is through military action, what would you do?
If a Palestinian is going to kill an Israeli child, and the only way to stop them is through military actions, would the Israelis be justified for killing them? You’re disingenuous to say that this isn’t rhetorical when you’re invoking the exact same rhetoric as justification for killing Israelis as the Israelis invoke as justification for killing Palestinians. If you have no sense that killing is absolutely wrong, then every act of killing is justifiable given a sympathetic perspective, which I simply don’t agree with. But if your morality lets you think that killing is justified, then that’s something you’ll just have to live with.
You avoided my question, I would like to know your answer, not some idealist moralizing. I am saying my question isn’t rhetorical because I want to know what you would suggest we do to stop a genocide that doesn’t entail any violence at all. I am genuinely curious! I am Buddhist, I agree killing is wrong and don’t even kill ants or flies.
Israel is commiting genocide against Palestine. They are shooting and bombing dozens of children and women every single day, while starving all of Gaza and letting them die of preventable illness. Tell me how many Israeli children have been killed in the war today? If a Palestinian is about to shoot a child whether in Israel or anywhere, someone would be justified in stopping them. But that is not the situation. Israel has pinned Gazans into a deathtrap with no food, water, and hardly any healthcare system remaining, now using ‘aid’ centers to further their indiscriminate murder.
If any killing at all is wrong, then you would suggest people sat by and watch the Nazis finish the holocaust, because it would have been wrong to fight back?
Again, I haven’t avoided your question. Your question was asked as part of a bad faith rhetorical strategy to reframe the issue. The plain fact of the matter is, you have two groups killing each other while claiming that their killing is justified as preventative. If that’s true, then any preventative killing is justifiable, because it just becomes a matter of perspective, and your entire argument against the Israelis could just be reversed to justify for them.
You haven’t answered it though, I am actually asking, why do you assume bad faith? One of my goals in life in general is to understand different viewpoints. But I see now you deny there is a genocide ongoing, so of course any action would be wrong to you because you think this is just a typical war.
It’s not a matter of perspective, there is endless footage, documentation, corpses to see, to prove the genocide, and no reputable scholar denies Israel is commiting genocide. If you believe this is all a matter of perspective then you are choosing to live in a false constructed reality.
You see, you have made a lot of claims there that are completely irrelevant to the discussion, because your disingenuous rhetorical position doesn’t allow you to actually address the real issues. I guess I will now claim that you also deny that there’s a genocide ongoing, because you’ve said nothing of the sort and apparently making wild claims without any basis in fact is part of legitimate dialogue in your mind? Please get real.
You almost have a point but to get there you have to ignore the entire actual context of the conflict. It’s not just killing because of killing, there’s an entire ongoing expansionist colonial project making one party clearly the aggressor.
You’re referring to the 1300 year colonialist occupation, presumably?
You are bad at trolling.
I guess when you’re small-minded, asking for a little consistency seems like trolling?