It has been the sensible order of choosing the source account then choosing the destination account. Now they’ve switched it to where you have to first choose the destination account then choose the source account.
I understand this shouldn’t be a big deal but my brain just absolutely rejects it and even knowing full well they’ve made the change on several occasions I’ve moved money the wrong way. Sometimes without even realizing it for days.
I don’t think this is simply a muscle memory thing that I’ll eventually get used to; I feel like it’s fundamentally nonsensical and I’m curious if it’s just me. Or am I just being a stubborn old man stuck in his ways?
Choosing the source then the destination is the correct order. The money moves from X to Y, of course you should choose X first and then Y. Destination then source feels inherently wrong to me too
My bank did the same and I totally moved money the wrong way and fucked up and over drafted.
Luckily I don’t get overdraft fees with my bank. But who the fuck designed putting destination first after years of it being second?
Maybe to get a bunch of people to overdraft and then ahve to pay overdraft fees?
They should display all your accounts as a word cloud and have you draw a line (directional arrow) from the source to the destination. Yes, using your finger (on a touchscreen) or the mouse.
#shittyuiideas
Both orders make sense, although switching the order is stupid.
Let me guess, the labels aren’t extremely obvious either are they?
I guess I’m just stuck in a physical mindset where you have to get the thing first before you can take it to where it goes.
The problem isn’t really the labeling because when they show my list of accounts I’m just focused on finding the one I want to move from. Im not even looking at the surrounding text.
Did they just make the page look basically the same, but reverse the order? If so, then that’s on them because of shitty UI planning. Making such a drastic change should come with an equally drastic visual layout change to disrupt the automatic mental flow that goes with muscle memory.
No, in their defense it was part of a whole site redesign. This is part of why I think it’s more than just muscle memory for me though.
I feel you could choose another metaphor though, and it would make sense.
Like, when you go to a shop to buy something or buy something online, you have already chosen the destination. Then you decide how you pay, choosing the source.
To me both make sense equally.
Source then Destination is the usual convention in my mind. I probably wouldn’t make a mistake either way because I’m the type to punch shit into my calculator 3 times to make sure.
How much a nerd are you? Not in the insulting way though. Could use something like Greasemonkey to rearrange the elements after page load.
For many reasons, I am not recommending that you do so but it is a possibility.
Could be in an app and then that wouldn’t work.
This statement summarizes many of the problems with my modern life.
There’s an app for that,
True, but you know what could be even worse? The app might just be a wrapper to display a web page that you otherwise cannot access.
Yeah, so … This statement summarizes many of the problems with my modern life.
edit: Also, I like your username. It makes me think of both Discworld and Adventure Time, two things that serve to partially counter the depressing nature of this conversation.
Ook?
Yes, I am pondering trying to take over the world!
… I’m too tired to actually be funny/relevant, but I appreciate your engagement.
Ook.
(No worries, be funny at your own pace)
Honestly, picking the destination first makes more sense.
But the primary law of UX is you don’t change shit up on people. I’d have taken a stand if I was on that team
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Curious why you think destination first makes more sense.
I just can’t get over the idea that when you move a thing to a different place, you go to where the thing is first so you can take it to the new place.
When you pay a bill, do you select who you’re paying then the amount from whichever account, or do you select the amount from an account and then select the company you’re paying?
Sure… If I want $300 in an account, that’s my goal. I don’t want to decrease another account by that amount
So my goal is to move X money into Y account, or maybe all but X money into Y account
The second half is where it comes from. It’s not the goal, it’s the means
But again as I said, flipping this is a worse solution than either direction
You must be an electrical engineer or something, since you’re apparently so used to thinking about flows backwards.
We have very different brains in regards to this subject.
When I pay for something (moving money) the first thing to do is choose the source. Cash, credit card, venmo, etc. Only once I’ve decided that can I pick where to move it… The cashiers hand, credit card machine, scan a venmo barcode, etc.
It’s funny, in all your examples, the need to pay comes first, then your selection of the source.
Like the cashier extends his hand, so the destination is clear, then you think about the source. The credit card machine is clear, then you choose which of your cards to use. The venmo scanner is there, then you choose how to fulfill that.
I think you’re adding more layers to this than what is actually required.
To move money from a to b. Not why it needs to be moved.
To pay a cashier you need to get your money/payment first. That’s the source. Handing it to the cashier is the destination.
Everything else you’ve mentioned is a why and has no bearing on the movement of payment.
That’s my…O2 anyway
It’s not a perfect example. The need to pay sort of starts as soon as you put something in your shopping basket. I’m not transferring money to the cashier unless it’s cash – otherwise it goes somewhere else and eventually the store gets it.
It’s just a thought experiment about something reasonably similar, and the similarities for me start after everything is rung up and it’s time to move money.
I wonder if at least some of it come from western writing: from left => destination right
It affects a lot of descriptions that we use in the west
Alternatively, you go to a store and decide you want to buy something. Now that you know what you want to buy are you doing to use cash, card, or barter?
A reasonable point.
Counterpoint: When I want to buy something, I first go to where the thing is; not where I wish it was.
I think that my flow is far more natural… But suffice to say I wouldn’t switch it on you either way
I looked at three of the banks/brokerages I use and the results are interesting!
The brokerages present you with step by step screens, and first have you choose the “to” account. Then you click ‘Next’ and choose the “from” account.
My bank presents them on the same screen, going top down. On top you pick the “from”, and below it you select “to”.
So, despite my strong opinion, apparently there hasn’t been any consistency in my experience, granted I don’t transfer money very often.
Yeah, it’s basically a UX issue. You can make either one seem more natural depending on how you present it, although if I’m transferring money I probably care more about where it’s going
Seems a convoluted way of looking at it to me, but i guess it’s just another case of different strokes for different folks.
I mean, I do this professionally, I took courses that break down what makes something feel intuitive
I don’t doubt that, but courses are selected/designed by their teachers - who likely select what fits their pre-existing biases. Virtually nothing humans do comes out without biases affecting things, which is what makes the “reproducibility” of studies such an important part of science - and even those reproductions need to be done numerous times by varying parties for the results to truly start to become trustworthy.
In short: there’s no pleasing everybody, but if you’re going to try then you must allow for differences in views and modus operandi.
You realize this is actually a field of study? Like, this isn’t a particularly soft science… Companies have done massive A/B campaigns and written papers on it, universities do studies on it… It’s not just opinion
Yes, as it has been for decades. I also learned some about it back in the early days of the '80s into the '90s. It’s constantly evolving along with the tech (and the capabilities of the current majority of users), so there’s never been much of an absolute set of standards that have withstood the test of time. Again, there are a wide variety of people in the world - all with their own perspectives and ways of doing things. As such, the goal of a universally intuitive interface - while laudable - is a bit of a quixotic pursuit, IMHO. At least until it fully resembles & interacts like real-world objects & beings, anyway.
ETA: They’re more likely eventually going to settle upon a set of standards that is based upon what users have collectively already been forced to learn from using existing interfaces. Once the vast majority of the world’s population is used to and on board with the same way of doing things, that will likely become the “standard” by default. For example, a growing number of people today are only comfortable using their phone, and have never really learned how to use a computer with a similar level of comfort. It will likely remain that way until some new major “paradigm shift” in tech happens (like the shift from PCs to phones) that starts the process anew.
If you think of it in physical terms , when you move something you have to grab it from its source then go to the destination.
Like even moving money to pay for something, you take out of your wallet and hand to the cashier.
Even computer filesystem management is: copy source destination, move source destination
It depends on how you look at it, and how it’s presented
You don’t fill a hole by grabbing dirt and finding a hole, you realize you need to fill a hole, and then you grab/buy materials to fill it in with.
It’s just a matter of approach. You can frame it in either direction
You still have to move dirt from source to destination, especially if there are multiple holes. But yeah maybe they should have a UI toggle
Can also think like this, “I have an invoice that I need to pay. So I need to pay to there, let me figure out where to get the money from”, i.e. impetus/problem-based thinking instead of process-based thinking.
The process is
move X to Y, but the need to get something toYactually came first, likeYis an invoice, or an account that is overdrawn, or whatever.Ycreated the “problem” initially, and thenmoving from Xis the “solution”.This is in a personal bank account though not inter company business
