Anyone else getting these donation ads? Was it just shoved onto an update by the Lemmy devs, or is this coming from the instance admins? It doesn’t seem to show on clean browser sessions to lemmy.ca
Anyone else getting these donation ads? Was it just shoved onto an update by the Lemmy devs, or is this coming from the instance admins? It doesn’t seem to show on clean browser sessions to lemmy.ca
Mbin is also an alternative. More transparency: https://joinmbin.org/servers
PieFed slants too much on the moderator side while simplifying the user experience to the point that you can’t even easily work with the modlog.
What is the issue with the modlog?
https://piefed.zip/modlog
Now compare it to every other implementation of the modlog.
It actually has filters now because of an update last month, but it’s still not readily accessible if you don’t know the URL while most implementations provide links to it, from the home page and filtered within each community page. Even if it gets addressed, it shows that the priorities lie more on the side of creating a Reddit clone than allowing essential access to transparency.
Now show the part where you had to scroll down the whole feed to get to it instead of it being on the sidebar. This is what dark patterns in GUI design are criticized for. I suspect that the devs have the same attitude as yours, it’s tacked on somewhere so it has already been handled. That’s the point, it’s not a priority.
With that logic the /instances page on Lemmy is also hidden as a dark pattern to prevent people from looking up an instance’s federation list
There is no instance sidebar on Piefed on the homepage, if someone wants to see the instance stats that person would have to go to the “About” page that is also at the bottom. That’s not a dark pattern, just a design decision.
Not really, why do you think whataboutism is a valid form of argument? Dark patterns are essentially bad design decisions. If you can say the same about how Lemmy handles it instances page, then one bad design decision doesn’t cancel out another, it can be improved as well.
Like Mbin. Which is supposed to be the context of this subthread.
Mbin also only links to the federation page at the very bottom of the homepage, does this mean that Mbin uses a dark pattern to prevent users from accessing that page?
Outright lying doesn’t really befit you. It is at a bottom of a sidebar, which is well above the bottom of the page even when it isn’t loaded in a separate frame. And again, whataboutism. If it can be criticized, maybe it should be brought up, but to me, the sidebar is an acceptable compromise.
You seem to have a beef with anything that does not prop up piefed honestly. You “agree to disagree” that just because something doesn’t have all of that could facilitate X it can’t be better at X, and you seem to be running towards “catch-ya” whataboutism rather than just being able to consider whether even though something isn’t ideal, it might be better and more focused than something else. Are you personally involved in the piefed project? It’s just odd for someone to seem that invested into dismissing any other preference over it. I personally don’t use it as much because I prefer the topics platforms like Lemmy headline, but that isn’t going to stop me from promoting Mbin specially where its absence as an alternative has been noted. Not sure why someone would be a proponent of the Fediverse and hostile against more alternatives.
I’m curious, as someone who’s mostly only looked from the outside, what “slants too much on the moderator side” means.
I’m referring to transparency features being like seeing who’s downvoting and upvoting comments or easy and relevant access to the modlog and comments getting removed. Piefed little effort to making the modlog transparent and hides upvoting and downvoting completely (they basically had to make up a new concern for it, “voting privacy”, but its an excuse that allows for the manipulation of the voting system and lack of accountability for already pseudonymous accounts) while also implementing a reputation system that is asking to be gamed. It puts more responsibility and power onto mods, admins, and devs, and it’s the second one that’s going to be more frequently exercised over conversations.
Basically, does it allow users to police themselves and the content they want to see, or does it give it to the people behind the curtains?
The “private voting” system has been removed months ago. Nowadays Piefed user can either decide to federate their votes (which can then been seen by lemvotes or other tools) or keep them local
Doesn’t matter, the philosophy is still there. I will never expect them to be as transparent as Mbin, who provides voting transparency thus proving that the whole concept of voting privacy is bust and a power play. There is no epidemic of people abusing voting transparency that the “voting privacy” advocates might have argued, never mind that it is also false sense of security when it is completely visible to the server instance admins.
Mbin doesn’t provide transparency for downvotes
So by your logic, just because they don’t provide all available forms of transparency means they don’t provide any? You are just searching for a “gotcha” when it isn’t even a counterpoint.
As to why,
That particular exception exists, it doesn’t take too much effort to find out why: https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/issues/1115 Among other things, Mbin was threatened to be blocked by Lemmy on default for part of its functionality by the Lemmy devs, and melroy decided to succumb to the pressure rather than split the fediverse on this issue. Honestly, I find the main Lemmy devs to be compromised given how much they want narratives to head in a particular political direction and the tool that lack of transparency on downvotes provides for that in regards to shaping visibility and discussion within threads. It wasn’t like that for a long time, but you knew that.
I didn’t say they don’t provide any, I said that their transparency isn’t complete.
If someone wants to have full votes transparency nowadays, using a Lemmy instance that federates lemvotes provides transparency on both up and downvotes, while Mbin only gives upvotes.
Not sure if Mbin support lemvotes, but even if it does, then it’s similar to Lemmy: you have to use lemvotes to have full transparency
Lemvotes isn’t foolproof, and just because something isn’t complete doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it. Although Lemvotes is another good example of how baseless the “voting privacy” argument is.
If I propose Mbin, it’s because between Lemmy and Piefed it has the most voting transparency, it doesn’t have to be perfect. I’d rather advertise instances that move towards it than those that move away with it due to ridiculous concepts like “voting privacy”.
To put it in the words that can illustrate the ideological hypocrisy surrounding it better, it is essentially a tool of the “bourgeois” to obfuscate general access to the “proletariat” of the user base. People have enough power to pseudonymize their votes to anonymous accounts, so it is a testament of insecurity to try to use dark patterns to hide access to it when it is readily accessible through sites like lemvotes to even the most hostile of parties. The sky hasn’t come down because these sites exist, and rather than the issue being the small minority of the people who might abuse them, I suspect it might be due to the insecurities of the people who downvote frequently or purposefully.
Piefed’s level of voting transparency is little different to Lemmys now, except for Piefed defederating from lemvotes. I was also present during the discussions about it - and Rimu was very open about why he initially didn’t like public voting. He changed it because of public pressure to do so. That’s not an absence of transparency.
In any case, even if piefed.social is poor for this. That wouldn’t mean that piefed.zip or piefed.ca would have to follow the same instance policies.
Piefed.social defederates, Piefed.zip is still federated with lemvotes
Sorry, yes. Correct.
Lemmy doesn’t give you this either, though? (Unless you use a service like lemvotes, which I think does it by having admin access.) So how is it different?