Linux needs to grow. Stop telling people it’s ‘tech-y’ or acting like you’re more advanced for using it, you are scaring away people. Linux Mint can be used by a senile person perfectly.
Explain shortly the benefits, ‘faster, more secure, easier to use, main choices of professionals and free’. Ask questions that let you know if they need to dual boot, ‘do you use Adobe, anti-cheat games, or Microsoft Office’, ‘how new is your computer’, ‘do you use a Mac’.
And most importantly, offer to help them install.
They don’t understand the concept of distros, just suggest Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon unless they’re curious.
That’s it, spread Linux to as many people as possible. The larger the marketshare, the better support we ALL get. We can fight enshittification. Take the time to spread it but don’t force it on anyone.
AND STOP SCARING PEOPLE AWAY. Linux has no advertising money, it’s up to us.
Offer family members or friends your help or copy and paste the below
how to install linux: 1) copy down your windows product key 2) backup your files to a harddrive 3) install the linux mint cinnamon iso from the linux mint website 4) use etcher (download from its website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive 5) go into bios 6) boot from the usb 7) erase the storage and install 8) press update all in the update manager 9) celebrate. it takes 15 minutes.
edit: LET ME RE-STATE, DO NOT FORCE IT ON ANYONE.
and if someone is at the level of ignorance (not in a derogatory fashion) that they dont know what a file even is genuinely dont bother unless theyre your parents cause youll be tech support for their ‘how do i install the internet’ questions.
No, it’s better to be honest. The average user isn’t ready for Linux, because Linux is not ready for the average user. I’d never try and get someone to use it if they’re not already interested. I hate that it is this way, but it is. Linux is only really for people who already want to use it. Because if you’re not interested in using it, you’re not going to put forth the time investment to gain the benefits from it. No matter what angle I look at it from Linux is not for the average person.
Your second paragraph says it all. Find out if the user needs to dual boot? The answer is obviously “No” because no matter what they’re using the computer for, Linux is unneeded for them, since they have Windows. There are tangible benefits to using Windows, since it runs their software, meanwhile, you failed to list any real benefits to using Linux for the average user. It’s faster? No, not really, since they’ll be learning how to use it, and even ignoring that, it’s not so much faster that they’ll perceive it anyway. It’s more secure? Not really, Windows is the better choice for the average user in that respect, since it’ll automatically force them to restart the machine every week to install security updates. Main choice of professionals? That’s not entirely true, and even if it were, it’s not relevant, the average user is not a professional. And for anyone who already owns a computer already running Windows, Windows was ‘free’ too.
The only time to have this discussion is if the user is having a PC built, and then the answer is also “No” to Linux, because they’re going to buy Windows anyway, since it’s better for gaming, and that’s the primary reason for someone to build a PC, unless they’re doing a specialized task like video editing, and if they are invested enough into the task to want a PC just for that, they have specialized software that almost always runs only on Windows, and even if it were able to run on either, it’s not my place to alter their workflow.
The real elitist attitude is thinking people need to use Linux in the first place. For me and (maybe) you, it might get the job done, but for my family and friends. It’s better that they use what they’re comfortable with. The main point of a computer is to accomplish tasks, and giving them Linux is a hindrance to that.
Linux is great, but it’s not for everyone, and it may never be.
Thank you. Windows is plain better for the average user, and that’s a hard pill for many to swallow. Heck, I force myself to use Linux time to time but I always go back because the Affinity suite and my fingerprint reader only works on Windows. I have no reason to stay on Linux, it’s too limited outside niche cases.
That’s plain wrong. That’s not honest, that’s elitist at best.
No user ever installed windows. So the whole installation and driver thing is a dishonest question.
Even for gaming on a custom PC, just take an amd card and games on steam, it’ll run smoothly.
Browsing Internet and desktop? Works fine on Linux. Fuck office, you don’t need it.
If you need a computer for a specific software, that’s a different matter. But presenting it like everyone is concerned is dishonest.
The security paragraph is complete nonsense. And obnoxiously rebooting is a major hindrance for most people, and it’s not avoidable without the professional licence.
It’s not 2010 anymore.
“Fuck office, you don’t need it.” <- the audacity to assume someone doesn’t need something.
No one needs office unless the company forces it.
Good luck but as someone who is techy, Linux drives me insane every time I use it. Yes, it’s a skill issue. I think that’s sort of the nature of the problem regarding Linux adoption.
I’m capable, a quick learner interested in learning, good at following step by step instructions, and am really good at teaching others once I’ve learned it.
I’ve been on and off Linux for at least 8 years now and I feel like I end up hating it more and more each time I work with it. I will say, all of them are hobby projects of things that I just want, or tried to replace something from Windows by using my server.
I’m sure if it was just basic web browsing it would be fine, but I inevitably want to do something so I look for how to do it, follow a guide or the documentation and inevitably 5 steps in something goes wrong. Like, I genuinely can’t think of a single instance where I’ve been able to follow a step-by-step outside of the Steam Deck and have it actually work the first time.
That aside, usually the amount of networking that has to be done manually is what gets me, bonus points if you are double natted.
Docker has made things better but it’s still a pain in the ass for me. I enjoy working with computers and software but more often than not I do not enjoy my time working with Linux and by the time I finally get something working I am just wishing I hadn’t wasted all my time trying to get it working, and wishing that I didn’t care so much about this. Cause if I didn’t care I could happily live without home assistant and my server. But I do care, so I have to work on it.
It’s genuinely frustrating. Something as simple as Stable Diffusion - literally a git clone command - something I’ve set up a dozen times on Windows installs, just will not work on my server because it decides something is wrong following the install.
This whole time running Linux there have only been 2 things that I rarely have problems with. The first is Plex, since I first installed it on a RasPi using DietPi I’ve had nothing but good, smooth experiences. Once in a while there would be a hiccup but it was straightforward enough. The most difficult Plex has ever been is on my recent server build with an NVIDIA card, just getting hardware transcoding to work (which it at least recognizes the GPU now so I think it is). Oh, and stupid fucking permissions. God I hate permissions.
The other has been my Steam Deck, where I’ve had no issues through and through, from modding to random installs.
Anyway, I’m ranting like this because I’m so frustrated with Linux’s ease of use/access. Technology has gotten so much easier to use that it feels insanely archaic being forced to tell Linux every specific little thing to or not to do. What’s more frustrating is when you are following the documentation and it never mentions what to do if ______ doesn’t work, it just continues on.
So all told… As someone who is confident with technology and familiar with Linux, I just have a hard time believing that someone who can hardly use an iPhone will have an enjoyable experience trying to, say, watch Netflix on Linux. I’d like to believe it, maybe my experiences have me biased.
And before anyone comes at me, I hate and get frustrated with Windows too, but I use it because when I try and do something it works, usually in a quarter of the working time. Surprising considering it’s Windows, but of all the projects I’ve tried to do on both Windows has a much higher success rate. Like almost 100%. Off the top of my head the only thing I couldn’t get working was DizqueTV on a Windows-Plex server (which ended up being why I moved it to Linux). Funny enough, DizqueTV wouldn’t work on my Linux install either because of my ISP.
FOSS takes your time, not your money.
I have the opposite experience. Windows is infuriating to use. It doesn’t obey me. It updates whenever it feels like it, installs crap I don’t want and switches my defaults, all while selling my data.
And I’m also on a double NAT, it causes me no problems.
I’ve also never had problems compiling and running random projects. Hell, it’s a hell of a lot easier than on Windows.
I also did begin to use it at a young age, which probably helped.
I think ultimately it’s not a technical problem, but a familiarity problem that hurts adoption. Things don’t behave the same as people are used to so they disregard it. I guess that’s why Microsoft licensing Windows to be used in schools and then schools using it exclusively is so insidious. They’re hooking people young and then so many people are locked in indirectly. It’s deliberately increasing their dominance with plausible deniability.
id really like to use linux, but not before this is working. i dont understand how you linux people can live witout ahk.
???
Anything you can do with AHK you can do with Python. No need for ahk on Linux tbh.
Auto Hot Key, that’s something I haven’t heard of in a while. Probably because it’s not as essential in a Linux environment when you can more easily accomplish most of what you’d accomplish using AHK in a shell script. What problem are you trying to solve using AHK? Someone might be able to tell you how to solve it.
mostly just abbreviations like
:*:ty-::Thank you very muchI know its possible in linux. but on windows in ahk it takes me seconds to add/remove/deactivate/activate them. and on a good working day do that maybe 20 to 50 times. and they are all in one single file.
i also use it for simple shortcuts or things like
:R*?:ddd:: FormatTime, CurrentDateTime,, dd.MM.yy SendInput %CurrentDateTime% returnor stuff like search selected text in search engine X or Y; but if selected in program A, then use search engine Z or open program B and enter it there. but those are the most complicated ones i use and dont need quick changing.
Check out
keyd, might be what you are looking for. I used it to customize dead keys.
I’ve “refreshed” a couple coworker’s old PCs with Linux Mint XFCE. It’s actually gone pretty well.
“All I do is browse the net.”
Okay, I’ll put the browser right on the desktop, so you don’t have to search for it. Be patient, it’s an older computer. But at least this works, unlike Windows.
And I haven’t really heard too much from them. Internet works. Basic needs fulfilled.
I feel like someone who knows a bit more could be more of a pain. But for very basic computing needs like paying your bills and surfing IG, it can go well.
NOPE. Every time I do it, I have to give them a lot of help and I end up becoming their technical support staff; my quota is already full, I’ve done my part.
thank yiu, i appreciate you
Not MS but IBM, created a front 13y ago called RedHat, financed it with consulting subcontracts installing RHEL,Fedora,Debian everywhere, to steer all Desktop/GUI development to depend on it, and when it all met its goals bought it to create its mass consumed system to compete with MS.
Very few attempt to maintain desktop functionality without systemd today, and upstreamers just quitely conformed to the "market’.
and will this ever be fixed or?
People who daily drive Linux are not the ones who spread the old idea that it’s “too techy”.
I admittedly don’t have many conversation about Linux with people, but yeah the ones I do have are usually me trying to convince people that it’s less techy and scary than they think it is. One person asked me how I do everything if it’s only text. They thought Linux was literally just the terminal with no UI at all. I had to be like “no dude, it’s like everything else. You can just install Firefox or Chrome or whatever you want.”
It’s still techy, here two recent problems I faced with still no solution’( specially with only Gui)
- Try to put Programs such as Firefox , emby in startup of linux
- Find a folder comparison software, let it feels nd external drive ATTACHED TO LAPTOP and compare two folders on it.
and every time I say Linux is not usefull for simple use i get downvotes all the time . Cause Linux bro dudes can do it with terminal so easy… Well guess what linux dudes , its hard for performing many tasks which are simple enough on windows/Mac heck even on Android ( which is Linux also I know) , but desktop Linux has looooooooooooooong way to be normal os in households
Find a folder comparison software [with only Gui]
A quick web search (even without ‘graphical’) turned up pages suggesting meld in the first few results.
Try to put Programs such as Firefox , emby in startup of linux
Ignore me if you’re not still looking for solutions.
IIRC, some distros have a way to do this through the gui, some don’t. I’m on LMDE, and it thankfully does have a gui to set startup programs.
But all distros should be able to do this. Here are some a common ways:
https://operavps.com/docs/run-command-after-boot-in-linux/
Instead of a complicated script, your command would literally just be “firefox”, or “emby”. You might need to search for what the command for a given program is.
It’s nowhere near as simple as it should be, but it is certainly possible.
But please don’t give unsolicited advice about Linux. No one wants that.
thats where the ‘dont force it on anyone’ comes from
Do you have a few minutes to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Linus Torvalds?
and RMS. And we need a third person to get to the holy trinity. Greg Kroah-Hartman? Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie? Bjarne Stroustrup? We could choose Lennart Poettering, that’d certainly annoy a few people. Maybe we need some more apostles and additional people since all of that is based on the work of so many different people.
I try to preach GNU/Linux to anyone who will listen. GNU/Linux & GPG.
Only had one success on the former. My wife. Technically there is another but every time I see that guy I fix petty easy stuff that’s obvious. Sure, I’ve been doing it a decade and a half but…WHY DOES NO ONE LISTEN? IT’LL BE THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD IF YOU DON’T START NOW!
FUCK.
gpg?
RMS’s FOSS flip of PGP.
Pretty Good Privacy
GNU Privacy Guard
I love the creative naming schemes that come from our community.
I just think that if we include the name of GNU/Linux into FOSS we could call it IA! FGLOSS! And summon a Cthulhu we know and understand.
Convenience and pop-whores … it is what capitalism prescribes. Add games, bookmarks on Edge, saved passwords, that people don’t want to change … and this is the disability they develop. Then win gets all borked BSOD and all, and they start the only way they know how, disk, format, new install.
They buy their own prison cells and the camera that monitors them like they live in a reality show.
What did you expect, a social revolution?
Once I learned the truth, I decided to figure out how to teach people how to save the world. Not a single individual has listened to the obvious let alone bothered to learn a single bit. Even my father, a fucking career programmer won’t fucking listen or learn.
All I want is to be able to post a question in a forum and get an answer besides "Until you read these 3 texts and 20 MAN entries I don’t want you to even stain this forum’s pages with your ignorant drivel’.
I’ve been trying to go linux for 20 years now and every fuckdamn time a problem I cannot solve or find an answer for online leads to the above and I’m done.
You guys may have cleaned up your community now but I don’t have the energy or patience to try it again.
Full Disclosure: IT admin with 3 decades of experience including supporting linux servers. If I have a hard time with it, think about what your average ‘raised on a smartphone’ newbie is going to think.
Linux sysadmin here too. I run Windows on my main workstation now because I have no patience for issues like sound not working when I join a video call and shit like that. Your post perfectly describes my gripe with Linux.
Windows sucks but 99 percent of problems are solved by simply rebooting the motherfucker.
Every word you speak is truth.
Something in my heart feels that if instead of spreading out a huge topheavy ecosystem of near identical distros that change their hippy dippy naming structures on a regular basis and instead on GETTING F$@KING PERIPHERALS TO WORK CONSISTENTLY then it would be a mainstream option.
I think the current massive distro ecosystem is actually cointelpro by the OS big boys to cripple competition.
I’ve seen a couple of posts in here about sound. It’s wild that I’ve been through dozens of distros since the start of high school (12 years ago), installed them on at least 10 machines over that time, and can’t remember one issue with sound that took more than 15 seconds to fix (e.g discord choosing the wrong sound device because I have 6 things plugged in that can technically output sound, which also happens to my friends who use Windows).
Maybe I’m just lucky. The only issues I recall having in the last decade are essentially graphics related. Either game compatibility (though proton/wine is much better than it was in 2015) or desktop environments being finicky (freezing on sleep for example), but the latter afaict was entirely due to proprietary nvidia drivers. There are proper, high-performance open source drivers in the works, so nvidia might be on par with amd in 2-3 years on Linux (which is to say literally no issues for the vast majority of people, probably far more stable than Windows).
In the same time I’ve had lots of people come to me with problems that we’ve specifically troubleshooted and found Windows to be the issue even when it seemed like hardware problems. Like monitor flickering/black screening, and plugging in a different monitor the issue goes away. On the surface it seems like a hardware problem, but both monitors worked flawlessly on Linux for literally months. Full reinstalling Windows did not fix the issue. Upgrading from Windows 10 -> 11 did not fix the issue.
Same thing with another friend’s external SSD. For some reason it wasn’t being detected on his Windows 7 install. We installed Linux and the drive was picked up. Maybe Windows 10 would’ve also picked up the drive in this circumstance, but a lot of people hated the idea of Windows 10 at the time (this was just after Windows 10 was released, when Windows 7 still had a similar market share).
There’s likely a huge percentage of problems people attribute to hardware that are actually Windows being a shitty O.S, but nobody actually checks if Windows is the problem.
Similarly, maybe just luck, but I’ve not really had a problem with windows since windows 10/server 2019. Yeah it’s resource heavy but I can’t even recall anything I’ve specifically had to delve into forums to troubleshoot. That said I haven’t had to do any windows desktop support since windows 7, thank the gods.
I deployed several server 2022 vms at work due to special circumstance and its actually good out of box, I only disabled some print services and my gold image was ready. Those have been running for a year and I’ve only rebooted them due to patching. Very different than the windows I adminned back in the 2000s.
Stop being elitist, spread Linux without systemd!
I got the joke
Stop being elitist
That takes away most teenagers’ motivation to use Linux xD
Things are about to get worse for onboarding those from other platforms. There’s been this massive push the last year to get every window manager to switch to Wayland & drop X11 support… meanwhile Wayland doesn’t support color profiles or color management (just sRGB). How are you going to convince someone with an awesome screen to drop down to sRGB? How will you convince someone with a poor screen that has been color calibrated to make it usable to go back to off colors? How do you expect content creators to migrate & still create content if they can’t have access to all the color tools they use in their workflow to come to Linux when Wayland won’t support them? A lot of Linux folk act like this doesn’t matter, but to a lot of people, a computer is a magic box that they interact with via a screen + keyboard + mouse, & if non-niche peripherals aren’t supported (which DCI-P3 is becoming the norm & saving a screen from a landfill can often be fixed to ‘good enough’ thru calibration), users will think it’s trash & unfinished.
x11 is still supporred by mint and realisrically will be for years???
The Mint team recently made experimental Wayland support available. Still very alpha but I don’t think it will be years.
The vast majority of people don’t know what sRGB or DCI-P3 or color profiles are, or care about it. I understand that you may be frustrated about bad support, but it is just not that big of a deal for most people. That said, color management and HDR support for wayland is being actively worked on, and I wouldn’t be suprised if it works better on wayland than X11 in a year or two. Also the distro suggested here (linux mint cinnamon) uses X11, not wayland. I agree with OP that we shouldn’t scare people away from linux. Forcing people to have an opinion on X11 vs Wayland or color profiles, definately could scare them away.
I have used labwc (a really close equivalent to openbox) with great excitement with the exception of one thing.
Running a graphic application as a different user within a user’s session is impossible. Even if a different seatd session is active for the 2nd user, wlroots refuses to draw anything as a different user than the one initiating the session.
It is a form of containerization for me that just requires x11
I’m not anti-Wayland… I’m anti-saying-it-good-enough-when-the-featureset-doesn’t match. I know it’s being worked on & I’ve followed the work pretty closely for over 4 years fingers-crossed there would be less bike-shedding & having things come out in easy-to-digest phases instead of holding back the monolith that they are building.
Knowing sRGB vs. DCI-P3 vs. AdobeRGB might not be immediately known as marketing teams like to hide the names behind marketing terms, but users very much understand ‘this displays a more vibrant range of color’. The whole ASUS laptop line is basically banking on having these great, color-calibrated 100% P3 OLED panels up all the price ranges because when a casual buyer walks in a shop, that those dominates the showroom & will sell better because it’s easy to compare even at a distance without looking at the spec sheet or touching the device; users are also used to it because smart phones have followed Apple’s P3 lead & expect better from laptops & monitors where the market can actually cater to this crowd (which is great since for years it seemed it was only dominated by how many frames you could get for the gamer crowd). Folk are getting QD OLED & other such monitors / TVs which have support. Imagine you buy that monitor, looks great, then move to Linux & now it doesn’t–which will become even more obvious when HDR is more mainstream, as you definitely noted. You don’t need to know the names of every technology or how they work to have a validated ‘bad feeling‘ about something not working as intended.
This is gonna cause more harm than good. The reason people think it’s techy is because it is. I would recommend linux to my grandma and someone who loves tech. The middleground runs into a lot of issues for doing anything beyond basic computer stuff.
This post gives me the vibe of someone desperately trying to get people to buy the cryptocurrency they’re invested in. Particularly the part where only the good is mentioned and the bad is omitted.
Some linux people are pretty elitist though, and it’s not helping the cause. but in the same way, i dont think pretending that it’s the greatest thing since sliced tea is much better.
The Lemmy Linux Community is elitist about Linux, I mean I told them I can’t find a file comparators on Linux I got downvotes , out of 4 , 1 solutions is use of Terminal(not a basic user would want to do) , 1 is claiming windows is bad and 1 might be a solutions.
But yah I got the downvotes from LINUX Bros. Dudes needs to just admit linux läcka programs and simplicity of use for general use.
Less people, less developers, less software. Gatekeepers seem to prefer to keep it worse, than get the obvious benefits of more users.
If Linux had the most and Windows the least users, it’d probably be in the same boat with the less ease of use in many cases.
True on both counts.
Part of me thinks you’re being unreasonable, because that question did receive decent responses (1 CLI + GUI suggestion, 1 GUI suggestion, and 2 beginning to try troubleshoot the drive access problem).
But I suspect it’s just a dissonance in perspectives, maybe due to your Linux distro causing a bunch of stupid issues, which haven’t been properly noticed by anyone yet.
It’s a shame that some distros like Ubuntu have enshittified so badly that they’ve become unsupportable. (Nothing seems to work rationally – the same reason I find it impossible to support users on Windows).
Advocates and potential/new users alike, need to consider specific distributions, not just “Linux”.
Just tell em, “What if I told you theres an OS with no annoying ads popping on your screen 24/7?” – “Yeah? Is that a modified Wi–” – “Nope. Linux”. And bam. :^)
“I know, that’s Windows 11 on the 5 PCs that we own.”
