Linux needs to grow. Stop telling people it’s ‘tech-y’ or acting like you’re more advanced for using it, you are scaring away people. Linux Mint can be used by a senile person perfectly.
Explain shortly the benefits, ‘faster, more secure, easier to use, main choices of professionals and free’. Ask questions that let you know if they need to dual boot, ‘do you use Adobe, anti-cheat games, or Microsoft Office’, ‘how new is your computer’, ‘do you use a Mac’.
And most importantly, offer to help them install.
They don’t understand the concept of distros, just suggest Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon unless they’re curious.
That’s it, spread Linux to as many people as possible. The larger the marketshare, the better support we ALL get. We can fight enshittification. Take the time to spread it but don’t force it on anyone.
AND STOP SCARING PEOPLE AWAY. Linux has no advertising money, it’s up to us.
Offer family members or friends your help or copy and paste the below
how to install linux: 1) copy down your windows product key 2) backup your files to a harddrive 3) install the linux mint cinnamon iso from the linux mint website 4) use etcher (download from its website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive 5) go into bios 6) boot from the usb 7) erase the storage and install 8) press update all in the update manager 9) celebrate. it takes 15 minutes.
edit: LET ME RE-STATE, DO NOT FORCE IT ON ANYONE.
and if someone is at the level of ignorance (not in a derogatory fashion) that they dont know what a file even is genuinely dont bother unless theyre your parents cause youll be tech support for their ‘how do i install the internet’ questions.
No, it’s better to be honest. The average user isn’t ready for Linux, because Linux is not ready for the average user. I’d never try and get someone to use it if they’re not already interested. I hate that it is this way, but it is. Linux is only really for people who already want to use it. Because if you’re not interested in using it, you’re not going to put forth the time investment to gain the benefits from it. No matter what angle I look at it from Linux is not for the average person.
Your second paragraph says it all. Find out if the user needs to dual boot? The answer is obviously “No” because no matter what they’re using the computer for, Linux is unneeded for them, since they have Windows. There are tangible benefits to using Windows, since it runs their software, meanwhile, you failed to list any real benefits to using Linux for the average user. It’s faster? No, not really, since they’ll be learning how to use it, and even ignoring that, it’s not so much faster that they’ll perceive it anyway. It’s more secure? Not really, Windows is the better choice for the average user in that respect, since it’ll automatically force them to restart the machine every week to install security updates. Main choice of professionals? That’s not entirely true, and even if it were, it’s not relevant, the average user is not a professional. And for anyone who already owns a computer already running Windows, Windows was ‘free’ too.
The only time to have this discussion is if the user is having a PC built, and then the answer is also “No” to Linux, because they’re going to buy Windows anyway, since it’s better for gaming, and that’s the primary reason for someone to build a PC, unless they’re doing a specialized task like video editing, and if they are invested enough into the task to want a PC just for that, they have specialized software that almost always runs only on Windows, and even if it were able to run on either, it’s not my place to alter their workflow.
The real elitist attitude is thinking people need to use Linux in the first place. For me and (maybe) you, it might get the job done, but for my family and friends. It’s better that they use what they’re comfortable with. The main point of a computer is to accomplish tasks, and giving them Linux is a hindrance to that.
Linux is great, but it’s not for everyone, and it may never be.
Thank you. Windows is plain better for the average user, and that’s a hard pill for many to swallow. Heck, I force myself to use Linux time to time but I always go back because the Affinity suite and my fingerprint reader only works on Windows. I have no reason to stay on Linux, it’s too limited outside niche cases.
That’s plain wrong. That’s not honest, that’s elitist at best.
No user ever installed windows. So the whole installation and driver thing is a dishonest question.
Even for gaming on a custom PC, just take an amd card and games on steam, it’ll run smoothly.
Browsing Internet and desktop? Works fine on Linux. Fuck office, you don’t need it.
If you need a computer for a specific software, that’s a different matter. But presenting it like everyone is concerned is dishonest.
The security paragraph is complete nonsense. And obnoxiously rebooting is a major hindrance for most people, and it’s not avoidable without the professional licence.
It’s not 2010 anymore.
“Fuck office, you don’t need it.” <- the audacity to assume someone doesn’t need something.
No one needs office unless the company forces it.
If you’re actually expecting people to transition without asking for help on a regular basis, you don’t know people.
You just made yourself their IT guy for life.
And I think there isn’t a good solution to this. Ideally you would enable people to make good choices for themselves, know how to handle the tools they use…
Interesingly enough they come to me to fix their printer and antivirus anyways, and I have no idea of what I’m doing since I haven’t used Windows in like 15 years, except for updating my GPS and filling out time-sheets for work and stuff like that. And in the meantime Microsoft switches things around every few years and bolts on a new interface onto their office suite and then moves it to the cloud. I don’t think it would make any difference if my relatives were using Linux in the first place. They would still need to ask someone to fix their printer drivers and handle big version upgrades. And if it was me at the other end, it would be way more convenient to me to help them.
I stopped advertising Linux to people who didn’t ask me to… I’ll tell them I use different things on my computer and why this software is way better. If they pick up on that and want to try out of their own motivation, I’ll gladly help.
This
id really like to use linux, but not before this is working. i dont understand how you linux people can live witout ahk.
Anything you can do with AHK you can do with Python. No need for ahk on Linux tbh.
Auto Hot Key, that’s something I haven’t heard of in a while. Probably because it’s not as essential in a Linux environment when you can more easily accomplish most of what you’d accomplish using AHK in a shell script. What problem are you trying to solve using AHK? Someone might be able to tell you how to solve it.
mostly just abbreviations like
:*:ty-::Thank you very muchI know its possible in linux. but on windows in ahk it takes me seconds to add/remove/deactivate/activate them. and on a good working day do that maybe 20 to 50 times. and they are all in one single file.
i also use it for simple shortcuts or things like
:R*?:ddd:: FormatTime, CurrentDateTime,, dd.MM.yy SendInput %CurrentDateTime% returnor stuff like search selected text in search engine X or Y; but if selected in program A, then use search engine Z or open program B and enter it there. but those are the most complicated ones i use and dont need quick changing.
Check out
keyd, might be what you are looking for. I used it to customize dead keys.
???
I don’t often suggest Linux to friends or family, because I don’t want to be on the hook for tech support. I also don’t want to be the blamed party when they inevitably give up, and be obligated to reinstall their old OS.
Linux is growing naturally. There’s little reason to suggest it to someone who won’t benefit from it.
EDIT: I want to clarify, I appreciate the spirit of your post. But I also want to call out, that it just isn’t the best choice for most people.
Good luck but as someone who is techy, Linux drives me insane every time I use it. Yes, it’s a skill issue. I think that’s sort of the nature of the problem regarding Linux adoption.
I’m capable, a quick learner interested in learning, good at following step by step instructions, and am really good at teaching others once I’ve learned it.
I’ve been on and off Linux for at least 8 years now and I feel like I end up hating it more and more each time I work with it. I will say, all of them are hobby projects of things that I just want, or tried to replace something from Windows by using my server.
I’m sure if it was just basic web browsing it would be fine, but I inevitably want to do something so I look for how to do it, follow a guide or the documentation and inevitably 5 steps in something goes wrong. Like, I genuinely can’t think of a single instance where I’ve been able to follow a step-by-step outside of the Steam Deck and have it actually work the first time.
That aside, usually the amount of networking that has to be done manually is what gets me, bonus points if you are double natted.
Docker has made things better but it’s still a pain in the ass for me. I enjoy working with computers and software but more often than not I do not enjoy my time working with Linux and by the time I finally get something working I am just wishing I hadn’t wasted all my time trying to get it working, and wishing that I didn’t care so much about this. Cause if I didn’t care I could happily live without home assistant and my server. But I do care, so I have to work on it.
It’s genuinely frustrating. Something as simple as Stable Diffusion - literally a git clone command - something I’ve set up a dozen times on Windows installs, just will not work on my server because it decides something is wrong following the install.
This whole time running Linux there have only been 2 things that I rarely have problems with. The first is Plex, since I first installed it on a RasPi using DietPi I’ve had nothing but good, smooth experiences. Once in a while there would be a hiccup but it was straightforward enough. The most difficult Plex has ever been is on my recent server build with an NVIDIA card, just getting hardware transcoding to work (which it at least recognizes the GPU now so I think it is). Oh, and stupid fucking permissions. God I hate permissions.
The other has been my Steam Deck, where I’ve had no issues through and through, from modding to random installs.
Anyway, I’m ranting like this because I’m so frustrated with Linux’s ease of use/access. Technology has gotten so much easier to use that it feels insanely archaic being forced to tell Linux every specific little thing to or not to do. What’s more frustrating is when you are following the documentation and it never mentions what to do if ______ doesn’t work, it just continues on.
So all told… As someone who is confident with technology and familiar with Linux, I just have a hard time believing that someone who can hardly use an iPhone will have an enjoyable experience trying to, say, watch Netflix on Linux. I’d like to believe it, maybe my experiences have me biased.
And before anyone comes at me, I hate and get frustrated with Windows too, but I use it because when I try and do something it works, usually in a quarter of the working time. Surprising considering it’s Windows, but of all the projects I’ve tried to do on both Windows has a much higher success rate. Like almost 100%. Off the top of my head the only thing I couldn’t get working was DizqueTV on a Windows-Plex server (which ended up being why I moved it to Linux). Funny enough, DizqueTV wouldn’t work on my Linux install either because of my ISP.
FOSS takes your time, not your money.
deleted by creator
I generally disagree with trying to get people to use linux now. Im seeing a lot of people leaving linux and getting turned off by the idea of it.
Aside from outliers like Android and Chrome OS, I do not think Linux is in a suitable state for non-techy people to use unfortunately. I’m really hoping PopOS will be able to change things in the future, however as it stands I really don’t think it is ready for prime time.
Users expect things that kind of just work and Linux Mint has not been that experience for me. I found the app store to be kind of annoying to use and complicated. The settings app were not very well laid out and miscellaneous stuff like that, which kind of ruins the experience.
Meanwhile, there are just general Linux issues to accessibility becoming worse and worse instead of better. You have issues like we still don’t have a distro with good wine integration so people can use the apps they actually need to use. The apps that we do have natively, are oftentimes relatively… janky. If you’re comparing Libreoffice to Microsoft Office, the experience is just not the same, even if the technical capability is.
EDIT: I want Linux to succeed just as much as anybody else. In fact, I think I might want it to succeed more because I absolutely detest maintaining Windows installs. However, lying about the state of Linux and being dishonest about it is not the way to go about this. We should be honest with all of its issues, so to speak. So that way we can strive to make them better instead of ignoring them and sweeping them under the rug for the people we tell to trial and to find instead.
This, don’t get why people are so set on convincing the world to switch.
Userbase is big enough that support is pretty good, we’ve all got what we want out of it, why try to push it on people who don’t care about technology
People making OS their religion and following one of the Penguin Creeds:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, installing Linux in the name of Torvalds, Stallman, and the Holy Kernel: Teaching them to use only FOSS software. Amen.
Personally, I want everyone to switch. I help my family all the time with their computing needs. I myself would greatly prefer them running linux all the time, but needs are needs.
If I might ask: Who is leaving and what for? Mac? I’ve seen some developers buy the newer M2/M3 Macbooks. I think they’re nice. But not nice enough to pay the price for one with a decent amount of RAM and storage myself.
I have had multiple friends I’ve gotten to try linux for a prolonged period of time leave back to windows or mac, (In one case ChromeOS). There are a variety of issues, needing to constantly wrangle to get games working even with lutris and steam, Various accessibility issues, Microsoft office as I mentioned etc.
the general consensus was “it often did most of what they needed it to do, but not all, and often times not well enough”
Uuh. Yeah I believe you. I can’t really empathize with that because on friday I booted the Windows on my laptop and it took like one and a half hours with the fan on maximum and two restarts until it had done the updates of the last three months since I’ve last used it. And then the Steam main window started flickering like crazy and I had to reboot it once or twice more, fix the boot order since it also messed with that and the graphics issues luckily went away on their own. I like to do development and dabble in electronics projects and that’s also so clumsy on windows. You need like 20 different tools to get a task done and windows doesn’t come with a single one of them. No git, no proper editor, nothing to mess with firmware files or flash them onto the microcontroller Not even the driver for some really standard USB/Serial chips. You can’t read some of the filesystems, it can only extract one or two types of archives and always something gets in your way and messes up your workflow… And speaking of workflows… I really like the unix philosophy, it’s soo convenient to use computers with a proper cli. In windows there is no equivalent to that, you’re supposed to use a plethora of UI tools, or nowadays use the WSL and just install Linux. And that’s just one aspect of what I do on my laptop. Guess it’s different for everyone of us. I mean I don’t judge. It’s just, I’ve tried both and I just can’t imagine how I’d enjoy using Windows. But everyone should make that decision for themselves. (Sorry for rambling on and on. I was really a bit pissed before the weekend. And turns out I still am. The “things have fewer issues on windows” somehow never works out for me.)
oh I absolute hate windows too, personally I can never stop running into issues with it. I have this really bloody stupid issue where every now and then my screen will flicker purple for no reason, AMD driver updates will constantly kick me out of my games with the stupid console open but blank. and so many other idiotic issues. It’s weird, it’s a;most as if the second you become technologically inclined windows intentionally breaks itself xD
Is $1900 too much for a blazing fast laptop with 1TB/24GB that will have support for 10 years?
I’m sorry, I really don’t get all the innuendo here. Are we talking about a Macbook or another laptop here that gets support for 10 years? I like to pay about 1200€ for a laptop and it usually lasts me like 6-8 years. But 1 TB SSD is a bit short of what I’m comfortable with. If I configure a M3 Macbook with 24GB of RAM and 2TB of SSD it comes down to 3149€. That is about $3.400 after taxes. Another laptop I really like is the frame.work laptop. The AMD Ryzen 7 should be plenty fast. The price including 32GB of memory and 2 TB of storage is 1918€ or about $2.070 after taxes. And in the years to come you can fix it and upgrade it however you like. So your $1900 sounds about right if it’s blazing fast and lasts you 10 years. I just wonder which laptop you’re talking about.
It’s a 15” MacBook Air M2. The closest frame.work laptop I could configure was $5 off from what you said, so I think we are going for the same specs.
I love the framework system. If I was going PC that’s absolutely who I’d go with. All those swappable ports?! I’m drooling.
All of my Apple laptops last a long time. I’m still using my 13” 2013 MacBook Air when I go on vacation. It’s so light and small. I’ve had to replace the battery on it, but I think that’s to be expected.
Third best enterprise OS.
Well, it’s better than Windows, so besides Linux what is better than macOS?
Not in an enterprise setting, so patato potato
If someone comes to me I’m more than happy to answer questions and help, but I won’t bring it up. People don’t like being told that their tool of choice is “bad” “not optimal” or anything like that. Even if it’s only their choice because they grew up with it or don’t want to learn anything new. And they still need to learn if it’s more than browsing the web.
Also I really don’t want to be the one they come running to once something doesn’t work the way they expected - or not at all. I don’t have the time nor the inclination to be tech support for my family and half of my friends.
This is the same as how I am. People know I’m “the Linux guy”, but I don’t preach it. I don’t try to get friends and family to switch operating systems. That’s like trying to get someone to switch to your favourite brand of underpants. The whole ethos behind Linux is the freedom of choice. If someone wants to learn more about it, I’m happy to point them to helpful resources, but they need to make the decision on their own, and choose for themselves. I won’t install it for them, because I don’t want to deal with the “where are all my pictures are gone?”, or “why doesnt my scanner work anymore?”
Here’s your step-by-step plan from a regular old user, as I’ve learned to know them:
-
Windows keys are tied to hardware and accounts these days.
-
This presumes the availability of an external hard drive. Also knowing how to make a backup. Or what you mean by “files”.
-
What’s an ISO? How does one install it? Double clicking it opens a weird folder.
-
I just put the ISO on my external drive and now my backup is gone what happened?
-
What in the world is a bios?
-
All I see is a screen called “Lenovo”. My mouse acts funny. What buttons do I click?
-
What the heck, my backup is gone again!
-
The installer for Photoshop won’t run and I can’t seem to get Onedrive to install either. How do I download the internet? All I see is Firefox but I use Google for the internet. Hang on, I can’t log into my email now, it’s asking me for a password. What’s my password?
-
I turned it off but I can’t get Windows to come back. How do I make Windows come back? Are my emails gone?
That said, there is actually a very nice Linux distro out there with step-by-step instructions and a video guide, it’s called ChromeOS Flex and it’ll work wonderfully to speed up old laptops.
gosh
reminds me of !windows_help@iusearchlinux.fyi
Don’t support anything Google touches.
Google is the fifth contributor to the Linux kernel, both in terms of change sets and lines changed, doing about 6-7% of the work. It’s very hard not to use anything Google touches, though I suppose you could use macOS, Windows, and one of the *BSDs unless they contribute to that as well.
I would love for a ChromeOS Flex competitor to show up, but it’s the only Linux distro I would put on someone else’s PC if I’m not available for tech support 24/7.
I work in a decent-sized computer repair shop and this is a very accurate representation of what the average user knows.
Just in case anyone thinks this is over the top.
To be fair to some of them, I did assume users knew where to look for their backups on an external drive, which is already a bridge too far for most. I included backups because of the steps mentioned in the opening post, but realistically, “backups” means “Microsoft Onedrive”.
And I haven’t even mentioned the scary, confusing breed of people that store their most important files in the Recycling Bin. These people exist, are important business people, responsible for millions, and will blame you if their files are magically gone one day.
I’m fortnightly* helping some friends upgrade from win7 to more modern windows. They’re smart people, one’s an accountant, the other a school librarian. But since neither of their professions nor their hobbies are computer technical they need help
They’re currently at the step “ring Microsoft to troubleshoot the licence”
*They host the d&d game
shared XKCD about experts overestimating laypeople’s knowledge of their field
Double clicking it opens a weird folder.
I just put the ISO on my external drive and now my backup is gone what happened?Proceeds to assume laypeople have backups
haha right! Most people don’t even understand that MacOS is a thing on it’s own, they just think it’s a Mac. They have never needed to make the distinction between software and hardware. If you were to suggest they “change to Linux”, they won’t have any frame of reference for what this means. Heck, most people still call Android phones “droids”, or if they know anything, “Pixels” and “Samsungs” without knowing that “Android” is it’s own thing. Macbooks have USB-C now but few users know that you can use an Apple charger to charge anything USB-C. It’s like back in the 90s you would frequently hear people not making the distinction between “monitor” and “computer”.
Don’t get me wrong, I think consumer education is the only plausible way out of this proprietary mess, but the further society moves away from PCs having discrete interchangeable components the harder concepts like “operating system” are going to be to understand for anyone not specifically seeking out that knowledge.
education is so important
Absolutely right. And it blows my mind that at this point people are getting less technologically literate, not more. Job security for us IT guys, I guess.
It’s not all that bad. I’m sure there are as many youth keen to learn computers and they have easy access to all the tools they need to develop knowledge and skill
It’s just as we have become more knowledgeable, more capable, the difference between us and the normal people seems incredible.
But put us in an area needing different specialist knowledge and we’ll struggle like they do with computer technical stuff
We speak jargon. They don’t know the words, or if they do they use them wrong.
Also it sucks for us in IT work; when you are in an agile team and the manager two levels up doesn’t understand agile they do things like break up high performing teams (mine had been a team for four years - from the day the organisation decided to test agile) to share the people around so they can teach the others how to be high performing
Had they read anything about agile, they would know that longevity of a team is a good predictor for performances — but they wouldn’t read about agile, it’s an IT technical thing
I mean, two whole generations are growing up without using regular computers until they enter the workforce or go to college. When I was in highschool, I was told that the generations after me would mostly be more technologically literate than anyone was at the time, but with smartphones and ChromeOS it seems that the time to learn how to use a personal computer now begins far later than it was for us millennials.
There are so many basic things about using a computer that it is no longer to expect a high school graduate to know, such as how to use a printer (or what a printer even is), how to reboot a computer, what a browser is, etc.
Every step, I’m discounting the users that gave up the step before.
Obviously, most normal users just say “no” to the suggestion of Linux because they don’t know what a Linux is and have no interest in buying anything else.
i was called into one office where they bought a backup external, like someone told them to previously. they took it out of the box, set it on the tower. and i guess, that was that. the magic box would now have backups of everything they did.
five years later, i got to tell them that there’s nothing on it.
the pc was never configured to run a backup of any kind. hell, the drive was never connected to the pc.
so no backups of their documents, their spreadsheets, their mailing lists, their email, or their quickbooks (that part, they at least ran manual backups of, when prompted by the software, to a flash drive).
I bet that company hires lawyers for law technical stuff.
step 2 of this process involves making a backup. whether they understand how they did so or not.
Honestly these people shouldn’t use computers if they can’t be bothered to learn the bare minimum ngl.
Or we need to improve IT classes and courses
The bare minimum is “I need to be able to send out a CV, file my taxes, and look up the weather”. It used to be “configure DMA and IRQ channels so your sound card and hard drive don’t conflict” but thank fuck we’re past that stage.
I’m not teaching my parents the intermediate steps of installing Linux because none of those skills are valuable to them and what they use their computers for. I’ll answer their questions if they ask, but normal people don’t go into BIOSes, don’t deal with ISO files, and these days I doubt most still use physical backups now that OneDrive and iCloud have been integrated so well.
I was thinking more “navigate to a file” type stuff. Understanding what admin privileges are, copying and pasting, stuff like this.
Often times when I needed to help a non-tech savvy person solve an issue on any OS it is some really dumb problem like them not knowing how to run some program as admin (no idea why they want to run a graph software that needs admin privileges to this day), opening the file manager, navigating to a folder to paste a file to it, or simply reading the popup instead of panicking.
At no point have I said going into a BIOS is basic knowledge. But if the people you’re dealing with struggle with the most basic shit ever then you’re not even gonna get to the BIOS part, and if they aren’t willing to learn how to use a computer then they probably shouldn’t use a computer.
Honestly these people shouldn’t use computers if they can’t be bothered to learn the bare minimum ngl.
You need a license to drive a car, and to get the license you have to pass a test to prove you know the basics of motor vehicle operation and the “rules of the road.”
I really don’t see why we couldn’t/shouldn’t apply the same logic to computer hardware.
I do agree, to some extent, and the EU has had their EU digital drivers’ license program for ages now. If you finish the courses and score well on the test, you get a certificate that says you can do all the required parts of normal computer operation. That includes creating folders, managing files, doing basic word processing/spreadsheets/email, and a few basic concepts such as “what is a task bar”. How much you need to know depends on the level of skill you’re trying to prove, but I can tell you that none of them involve installing Linux.
Unfortunately, in offices “being bad at computers” is a funny character quirk and not a reason to send someone on training, but in theory there is exactly such a piece of paper.
I really don’t see why we couldn’t/shouldn’t apply the same logic to computer hardware.
Uh because innocent people don’t die if a user doesn’t know how to install an OS?
In some contexts having people who don’t know what files are, what a folder is, and some other basics, do lead to people dying or lots of damage done.
Of course you’d expect people in these contexts to be trained but that’s not always the case.
Also having no idea what a file is and not knowing the bare minimum of how a computer works in this day and age is unacceptable. It should be taught properly in schools (instead of teaching some very specific stuff everyone will forget, like what a bus is, and then jump to what excel is and how to use it, like they did in my IT class back in high school)
You realise there are people that are over 80 that only have a computer so they can check pictures of their grandkids on Facebook and that’s it?
yes, I do, but that’s not representative of the majority of the population.
So it’s unacceptable for them to have a computer?
Don’t get me wrong I’m very pro-tech literacy and education, especially with the tablet generation users that are becoming more abstracted from the system plumbing… but requiring licenses to use a computer?? Lol. If it’s that important to the job, employer should provide training just like any other piece of equipment.
I’m not going to expect doctors to know how to get into a bios or cleanup a corrupted file system, they specialized in human biology - keep them focused on that, and I’ll handle the OS management.
I don’t expect anyone to know how to install an OS either, that’s not the basics. But I do expect everyone to know what a file is, what file extensions are and what a directory/folder is.
Why? Those are just abstractions. Why do you get to decide at which level of abstraction is the baseline for a person to use a computer?
Especially considering most computer users are operating at a higher level of abstraction (i.e. phones/tablets).
You are not the average computer user anymore.
Tell that to the guy whose son was so influenced by grifters online that he cut off his dad’s head.
Oh wait you can’t because he’s dead.
No, using the internet while being an idiot has literally lead to murder.
He just needed the TV to turn this way, should were require a college degree to be allowed to have a TV?
Should require a license to go outside or read a book too, they might meet a dangerous group of people or read something that influences them.
-
Stop being elitist about Linux, the amount of times I’ve had to explain that none of my software runs great on Linux just to have to hear how with trouble shooting it will. My work depends on the use of my software, it’s collaborative. If I have to trouble shoot every time adobe or Ableton updates it’s a bad use of my time and is actively taking time away from projects. Only I use VSTs for music production, they all work perfectly in windows and MacOS. Linux? Hit or miss.
Maybe I’m convinced. Now I gotta find the right one, set it up. Get all my software working, learn a new UI, hope that it doesn’t break collaboration. All in all, not worth the little I would save.
deleted by creator
The Adobe photography plan costs me $120 a year, and honestly includes more useful updates than not. Their AI masking upgrades the last couple years are saving me hours to days of editing time per photo session.
$120 a year is worth maybe one hour of my free time. Even just migrating to Darktable would take me weeks or months of dedicated time to migrate my existing catalog.
I wrote it here some time ago. Tried Linux Mint with the intention of finally switching from windows on my notebook. Bricked one partition that I forgot I had set to dynamic, Headphone jacks didn’t work even after fiddling around with arcane parameters in the cli. If you mainly need the command line to set your system up and stuff doesn’t work out of the box people don’t have the nerve to switch and learn all that. Love Linux, great on steamdeck, have a couple of Virtual Machines to play around with on my old Poweredge server but it’s not ready for me, the average user. That and I’ve to use windows for my cad work at my job anyways. I’ll take the downvotes but you’ll have to realize you are tech savvy people who have fun learning all that. Most people don’t.
I think Mint is better out of the box than it used to be. I was on it maybe 5 or 6 years ago and had to troubleshoot a few issues, but I just came back to it a few months ago and everything worked flawlessly out of the box.
wait did you install linux mint regular or edge??
The average user doesn’t install windows. I used to get paid when I was a kid to install windows in my village.
Headline: “Person new to and overly excited about Thing, starts telling other more experienced people about how to approach and think about Thing”
:(
This is the attitude the OP is talking about.
Being snobbish helps noone, we’ve all been noobs at some point.
Linux is the most widely deployed OS on the planet. I’m not sure OP is actually talking about aside from desktop usage. It’s in your headphones, home appliances, routers, competing OS’s, datacenters that run the world…what do you imagine is missed?
Sorry, but it is tech-y. Not out of reach by anybody who is interested in learning, but ask the average person to self sign their drivers (required for any Nvidea card if you want to game and don’t turn on legacy bios). Or maybe you want the latest version of Spotify on Mint and therefore need to add flathub using the terminal. With help or research, sure, not hard concepts to grasp. Without help though, it’d probably be a dealbrealer.
And once you’ce done both of those I’d consider you ‘tech-y’
Isn’t flathub configured out of the box in Mint nowadays?
I also don’t think you need to manually sign drivers? Or at least, I’ve never seen anyone mentioning needing to do it. If you do though, I imagine turning off Secure Boot is probably easier.
I try to preach GNU/Linux to anyone who will listen. GNU/Linux & GPG.
Only had one success on the former. My wife. Technically there is another but every time I see that guy I fix petty easy stuff that’s obvious. Sure, I’ve been doing it a decade and a half but…WHY DOES NO ONE LISTEN? IT’LL BE THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD IF YOU DON’T START NOW!
FUCK.
Convenience and pop-whores … it is what capitalism prescribes. Add games, bookmarks on Edge, saved passwords, that people don’t want to change … and this is the disability they develop. Then win gets all borked BSOD and all, and they start the only way they know how, disk, format, new install.
They buy their own prison cells and the camera that monitors them like they live in a reality show.
What did you expect, a social revolution?
Once I learned the truth, I decided to figure out how to teach people how to save the world. Not a single individual has listened to the obvious let alone bothered to learn a single bit. Even my father, a fucking career programmer won’t fucking listen or learn.
gpg?
RMS’s FOSS flip of PGP.
Pretty Good Privacy
GNU Privacy Guard
deleted by creator
I just think that if we include the name of GNU/Linux into FOSS we could call it IA! FGLOSS! And summon a Cthulhu we know and understand.
Stop being elitist.
Use linux mint.
Why linux mint?
It’s like ubuntu but no snaps.
What’s ubuntu?
It’s like debian but not as stable. You’ll get more recent apps in ubuntu, test them, and when they are tested companies use the apps in debian.
Ok, What are snaps?
You can install packages with snap, but it’s proprietary.
Ok, that’s bad?
Yes. Foss apps are great and better than proprietary garbage.
Ok, foss good, proprietary garbage.
Why debian and not fedora?
Because all apps are build for it.
So it’s like aur?
No. Aur is made by users for users. Builds on debian are mostly official.
So the package manager is better on debian?
Yes, kind of.
I heard of distrobox. I could use the package manager on any distro.
Yes, but it’s easier at the beginning to stick to one distro and package manager to get used to it.
Why not arch?
It’s too unstable.
Ok, no arch distro. I heard manjaro is good.
No, it holds back packages for no reason.
Ok. What about fedora?
It doesn’t have as many packages.
But it has the copr, aren’t there a lot of apps?
Yes, but it’s like aur, it’s build by users. Debian builds are good, stable and widely used.
Ok. What about nix? I heared it’s the new arch and there are even more packages.
Yes, but It’s not for newbies.
What is an immutable system? I heared that’s the next big thing.
It’s like android an image based operating system where you can’t brick your system by accident with rm -rf /
What’s rm -rf /?
Just test it in a terminal, it’s fun.
How can I play games?
You install steam.
Do I have to configure anything?
Hopefully not
Can I only use linux mint?
No you can use any distro, they are all linux. You can choose whatever you want. Just choose mint.
Why mint?
It has no snaps.
What do I use instead?
Flatpaks
If I use flatpaks, why does the package manager matter so much?
Because not all apps are available as flatpacks, especially command line tools. Snaps has cli but it’s proprietary.
Can’t I just use any distro and use a debian distrobox for those packages I need from debian?
Yes, use linux mint, it’s easy to use.
Do I actually need all those packages? I only use word and steam.
No, probably not.
Why not using ubuntu and install flatpaks?
Because ubuntu sucks.
But isn’t mint based on ubuntu?
Yes, but it has no snaps.
Can’t I just use debian?
Yes, but it doesn’t have the latest packages.
How do I install word?
You can’t. You can use the online version.
That’s a lot to understand. Can’t I just windows? I only open steam anyway.
Yes, but it’s proprietary.
Steam is also proprietary.
Yes, but you xan play games with it on linux.
But if steam is proprietary, and windows is proprietary, and I mainly use steam anyway, does it even matter?
What’s a DE?
Linux mint uses cinnamon, it’s cool!
I saw some KDE screemshots. It looks cool and everyone talks about it. There’s a big release coming in a few weeks. how do I install it?
You usually don’t mix DEs unless you know what you do.
I don’t.
Then don’t mix it.
But I want to use KDE. Which distro should I use? Kubuntu?
No, it uses snaps like ubuntu.
…
Going for that “who’s on first base” vibe?
Thanks for the laugh 😀
Someone prefers mint.
most ‘newbies’, who just need something to launch a browser these days, wouldn’t go past line 2.
No it doesn’t. If you don’t care and just want anything that runs Steam, don’t bother. Just pick anything, it runs fine on most Linux distributions, Windows and probably Mac. You’re fine with tossing a coin. I’d choose Linux in that case since it’s cheaper.
A proper conversation would be like this:
What shall I use?
Depends… What do you want to do with your computer?
Play games with Steam.
Alright, then use XY. Wanna know more?
No.
Fine.
How do I install word? https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=LH-6tp-KBuQ
What’s rm -rf /?
Just` test it in a terminal, it’s fun.
💀
All I want is to be able to post a question in a forum and get an answer besides "Until you read these 3 texts and 20 MAN entries I don’t want you to even stain this forum’s pages with your ignorant drivel’.
I’ve been trying to go linux for 20 years now and every fuckdamn time a problem I cannot solve or find an answer for online leads to the above and I’m done.
You guys may have cleaned up your community now but I don’t have the energy or patience to try it again.
Full Disclosure: IT admin with 3 decades of experience including supporting linux servers. If I have a hard time with it, think about what your average ‘raised on a smartphone’ newbie is going to think.
Linux sysadmin here too. I run Windows on my main workstation now because I have no patience for issues like sound not working when I join a video call and shit like that. Your post perfectly describes my gripe with Linux.
Windows sucks but 99 percent of problems are solved by simply rebooting the motherfucker.
Every word you speak is truth.
Something in my heart feels that if instead of spreading out a huge topheavy ecosystem of near identical distros that change their hippy dippy naming structures on a regular basis and instead on GETTING F$@KING PERIPHERALS TO WORK CONSISTENTLY then it would be a mainstream option.
I think the current massive distro ecosystem is actually cointelpro by the OS big boys to cripple competition.
I’ve seen a couple of posts in here about sound. It’s wild that I’ve been through dozens of distros since the start of high school (12 years ago), installed them on at least 10 machines over that time, and can’t remember one issue with sound that took more than 15 seconds to fix (e.g discord choosing the wrong sound device because I have 6 things plugged in that can technically output sound, which also happens to my friends who use Windows).
Maybe I’m just lucky. The only issues I recall having in the last decade are essentially graphics related. Either game compatibility (though proton/wine is much better than it was in 2015) or desktop environments being finicky (freezing on sleep for example), but the latter afaict was entirely due to proprietary nvidia drivers. There are proper, high-performance open source drivers in the works, so nvidia might be on par with amd in 2-3 years on Linux (which is to say literally no issues for the vast majority of people, probably far more stable than Windows).
In the same time I’ve had lots of people come to me with problems that we’ve specifically troubleshooted and found Windows to be the issue even when it seemed like hardware problems. Like monitor flickering/black screening, and plugging in a different monitor the issue goes away. On the surface it seems like a hardware problem, but both monitors worked flawlessly on Linux for literally months. Full reinstalling Windows did not fix the issue. Upgrading from Windows 10 -> 11 did not fix the issue.
Same thing with another friend’s external SSD. For some reason it wasn’t being detected on his Windows 7 install. We installed Linux and the drive was picked up. Maybe Windows 10 would’ve also picked up the drive in this circumstance, but a lot of people hated the idea of Windows 10 at the time (this was just after Windows 10 was released, when Windows 7 still had a similar market share).
There’s likely a huge percentage of problems people attribute to hardware that are actually Windows being a shitty O.S, but nobody actually checks if Windows is the problem.
Similarly, maybe just luck, but I’ve not really had a problem with windows since windows 10/server 2019. Yeah it’s resource heavy but I can’t even recall anything I’ve specifically had to delve into forums to troubleshoot. That said I haven’t had to do any windows desktop support since windows 7, thank the gods.
I deployed several server 2022 vms at work due to special circumstance and its actually good out of box, I only disabled some print services and my gold image was ready. Those have been running for a year and I’ve only rebooted them due to patching. Very different than the windows I adminned back in the 2000s.
