Because I would much rather ICE spend its resources preventing IMs from entering the country, rather than rounding up IMs who have been living here peacefully for 20+ years.
Because—and I’m willing to debate the utility of this—a significant portion of our agricultural economy depends on IMs who will work below the standard of living legally required for our citizens.
Because the vast majority of IMs are just people seeking asylum from cartels and/or horrible dictatorial governments and are not a threat to the American way of life.
Because IMs by and large do not “steal” jobs from American workers but rather do jobs most Americans would never consider doing. See said issue with our agricultural sector.
Now, let’s hear your reasons for wanting to spend the immense amount of money necessary to find and deport these people. Because I’m sure your arguments are incredibly well thought out.
I would argue that instead of ICE, we should have a vastly expanded IRS to enforce regulations upon businesses. For example, every business is assigned state and federal accountants, who check that the books are legit. These accountants are regularly rotated by the nation, so that companies can’t establish “working” relationships with any given accountant, which reduces corruption.
This would increase the amount of money that government receives from the 1%, along with helping prevent wage theft or other criminal activities. Businesses, not migrants, are innately prone to corruption.
The money spent on ICE, can be used to enforce regulations. The wealthy don’t like that, and would prefer us to focus on bullying the little people. It wastes our time and attention, so that genuine criminals can get away with casual crimes. In the US, the largest form of theft is wage theft, and I would argue that paying migrants below minimum wage is also theft.
While there will always be a need for some sort of physical authority, we can probably cut 90% of physical agencies, and use that budget for more useful things. For example, mental health outtreach programs that provide free therapy, genuine shelter and food without strings for the homeless, and so forth.
That is why if there are any physical enforcement, agencies need to have very specific missions, tight rules, and to be built from the ground up for the purpose. The majority of police in America were originally slave catchers, but became what we call police over the centuries. That brutal character inherently poisoned our physical enforcement institutions. Outright deleting ICE and other existing agencies, and then building new ones without legacy personnel, would promote peace.
While I would agree ICE and most police agencies need a thorough cleansing to purge them of racists, we can’t just get rid of 90% of them and start from scratch. That’s too big a transition. It needs to be done gradually to ensure se always have a police force and some form of illegal immigration deterrence.
I obviously do think we should be taxing the crap out of corporations. The top 1% isn’t really individual rich people, but the corporations they own. I would also advocate ending “corporate personhood.” That would be a big step in the right direction, as would reversing the Citizens United ruling or better yet, passing a law that makes it moot.
We can start from scratch - kill one department and replace it at a time. We probably could hire from Finland and other countries abroad to start clean-sheet academies to raise our first decade or so of officers. They put a great deal of effort and time into training their police, and we can pay them for services rendered. Finland might appreciate our supply of MRAPs and other surplus military gear, considering who they share borders with.
LOL, you want to hire foreign police to replace entire PDs in America? And how do you think Americans would feel about being policed by foreigners? Hell, what makes you think foreigners would want to police Americans? Please, name me one historical instance of this working, let alone having happened.
It would be one thing to take cues from European police forces to change the culture and tactics of American police forces, which I would totally support, but actually bringing foreign cops here to replace American cops? No way. Not a chance in hell that would work.
Besides, history is a wild and wooly thing that isn’t set in stone. Before FDR and the Great Depression, most Americans wouldn’t have considered the possibility of huge socialist programs such as Social Security. Besides, if a civil war happens, what is “American” will be redefined, simply because the respective sides would have different ideologies. Before the War for Independence, many Americans considered themselves to be British.
Crack open any volume of “The Cartoon History of the Universe”, and you will see something very apparent: Nations and their people change all the time. It is just for you and me, history looks slow, so we can’t easily recognize changes when they are happening.
If we want to change America for the better, we must be willing to discard “traditional” thought. It is when we refuse to consider possibilities, that “tradition” decays into “stagnation”.
The large amount of foreign nationals being exploited due to their illegal status and working in unsafe underpaid jobs is something I’m against from a pro labor position.
The employees who hire and exploit them need to be punished. Who will do this job for the tiny wages? I guess nobody, the wages must go up. More expensive avocados is what we need to settle for, instead of exploiting desperate foreign nationals. There are no easy painless solutions here.
Maybe I am naive in thinking ICE is going after the criminal element that exists in the illegal immigrant community.
The large amount of foreign nationals being exploited due to their illegal status and working in unsafe underpaid jobs is something I’m against from a pro labor position.
Fine, but how does rounding them up and deporting them solve this problem?
The employees who hire and exploit them need to be punished.
Again, how do ICE strategies solve this problem?
Maybe I am naive in thinking ICE is going after the criminal element that exists in the illegal immigrant community.
You are. The criminal element in migrant communities is tiny, and the notion that ICE is prioritizing them is bupkis. ICE is sadly comprised mainly of American racists, who use their job titles as a shield for implementing their White nationalist agendas. These aren’t people who are doing what they claim to be doing—protecting our borders against illegal invaders—they’re just trying to keep America’s birth rate mostly White, because they’re scared, xenophobic assholes.
As an American, I fully oppose these douchebags. America is not a White nation. We’re a non-racial nation, made up of everyone, home to everyone, and better for it. Our best quality is the fact that we welcome everyone, and those amongst us who oppose that are the true anti-Americans. Our history is a shit-show, true; but our ideals are worth fighting for. And the people that are anti-immigration are pro-racism, pure and simple.
Because the current purge is rooted in racism, not legality. They’re deporting American citizens and people who are here legally as well without due process, blatantly violating the constitution which he swore to defend and uphold.
Trump wants to deport anyone he doesn’t like, which includes anyone that doesn’t like him. Make no mistake, he would deport half the country if he felt he could get away with it. He has no regard for the rule of law and has proven that time and again. What he is doing is tyranny and the real patriots are out there standing up against it.
Every study I’ve seen shows illegal immigrants to be a net positive to the economy, while at the same being responsible for fewer crimes than papered immigrants or regular citizens. I wonder why people are willing to go through such social pain and stupidity to attack them. I mean, aside from racism. We should be working on smoothing the way to citizenship, or at a minimum, legality. That would help address the exploitation that takes place (as you mentioned in another post). On a tangent, we really need to do something about universal health care, housing, and the shitty, hateful state of wages in the country while we are at it.
We have a myriad of fundamental problems in this country, illegal immigrants are just a distraction that get the low-information voters fired up and ignoring the real problems.
I think that universal healthcare would be the key to ending undocumented immigration, and more importantly, wage evasion by employers. It is simple: documented immigrants get free healthcare, the same as any citizen. This would allow the state(s) to track the workplace activity of immigrants, and in turn be able to collect taxes, enforce fair wages, and hold businesses accountable.
This also has the effect of allowing citizens to have equal job opportunities when compared to migrants, because both are paid the same. Companies will naturally turn to hiring citizens, simply because they are closer to home. Everyone who isn’t a ghoul wins.
because they arnt targeting “illegal immigrants” its random people, and also immigrants that are here legally, plus they are specifically only targeting non-republican areas because they know blue areas are less likely to fight back and are unarmed. oh and they wont target places like meat packing plants, FARMS, republican, gop will raise hell if they were raided in congress.
I don’t get it
Why do you want to prevent ICE from deporting illegal immigrants?
Why do you want illegal immigrants to stay here so bad?
Alright, I’ll bite.
Because I would much rather ICE spend its resources preventing IMs from entering the country, rather than rounding up IMs who have been living here peacefully for 20+ years.
Because—and I’m willing to debate the utility of this—a significant portion of our agricultural economy depends on IMs who will work below the standard of living legally required for our citizens.
Because the vast majority of IMs are just people seeking asylum from cartels and/or horrible dictatorial governments and are not a threat to the American way of life.
Because IMs by and large do not “steal” jobs from American workers but rather do jobs most Americans would never consider doing. See said issue with our agricultural sector.
Now, let’s hear your reasons for wanting to spend the immense amount of money necessary to find and deport these people. Because I’m sure your arguments are incredibly well thought out.
I would argue that instead of ICE, we should have a vastly expanded IRS to enforce regulations upon businesses. For example, every business is assigned state and federal accountants, who check that the books are legit. These accountants are regularly rotated by the nation, so that companies can’t establish “working” relationships with any given accountant, which reduces corruption.
This would increase the amount of money that government receives from the 1%, along with helping prevent wage theft or other criminal activities. Businesses, not migrants, are innately prone to corruption.
Why instead of ICE? These are not mutually exclusive things and they don’t even address the same problems.
The money spent on ICE, can be used to enforce regulations. The wealthy don’t like that, and would prefer us to focus on bullying the little people. It wastes our time and attention, so that genuine criminals can get away with casual crimes. In the US, the largest form of theft is wage theft, and I would argue that paying migrants below minimum wage is also theft.
While there will always be a need for some sort of physical authority, we can probably cut 90% of physical agencies, and use that budget for more useful things. For example, mental health outtreach programs that provide free therapy, genuine shelter and food without strings for the homeless, and so forth.
That is why if there are any physical enforcement, agencies need to have very specific missions, tight rules, and to be built from the ground up for the purpose. The majority of police in America were originally slave catchers, but became what we call police over the centuries. That brutal character inherently poisoned our physical enforcement institutions. Outright deleting ICE and other existing agencies, and then building new ones without legacy personnel, would promote peace.
While I would agree ICE and most police agencies need a thorough cleansing to purge them of racists, we can’t just get rid of 90% of them and start from scratch. That’s too big a transition. It needs to be done gradually to ensure se always have a police force and some form of illegal immigration deterrence.
I obviously do think we should be taxing the crap out of corporations. The top 1% isn’t really individual rich people, but the corporations they own. I would also advocate ending “corporate personhood.” That would be a big step in the right direction, as would reversing the Citizens United ruling or better yet, passing a law that makes it moot.
We can start from scratch - kill one department and replace it at a time. We probably could hire from Finland and other countries abroad to start clean-sheet academies to raise our first decade or so of officers. They put a great deal of effort and time into training their police, and we can pay them for services rendered. Finland might appreciate our supply of MRAPs and other surplus military gear, considering who they share borders with.
LOL, you want to hire foreign police to replace entire PDs in America? And how do you think Americans would feel about being policed by foreigners? Hell, what makes you think foreigners would want to police Americans? Please, name me one historical instance of this working, let alone having happened.
It would be one thing to take cues from European police forces to change the culture and tactics of American police forces, which I would totally support, but actually bringing foreign cops here to replace American cops? No way. Not a chance in hell that would work.
Australia does hire foreigners onto their forces.
International Recruitment - Your experience can make a real difference in Queensland.
Besides, history is a wild and wooly thing that isn’t set in stone. Before FDR and the Great Depression, most Americans wouldn’t have considered the possibility of huge socialist programs such as Social Security. Besides, if a civil war happens, what is “American” will be redefined, simply because the respective sides would have different ideologies. Before the War for Independence, many Americans considered themselves to be British.
Crack open any volume of “The Cartoon History of the Universe”, and you will see something very apparent: Nations and their people change all the time. It is just for you and me, history looks slow, so we can’t easily recognize changes when they are happening.
If we want to change America for the better, we must be willing to discard “traditional” thought. It is when we refuse to consider possibilities, that “tradition” decays into “stagnation”.
The large amount of foreign nationals being exploited due to their illegal status and working in unsafe underpaid jobs is something I’m against from a pro labor position.
The employees who hire and exploit them need to be punished. Who will do this job for the tiny wages? I guess nobody, the wages must go up. More expensive avocados is what we need to settle for, instead of exploiting desperate foreign nationals. There are no easy painless solutions here.
Maybe I am naive in thinking ICE is going after the criminal element that exists in the illegal immigrant community.
Fine, but how does rounding them up and deporting them solve this problem?
Again, how do ICE strategies solve this problem?
You are. The criminal element in migrant communities is tiny, and the notion that ICE is prioritizing them is bupkis. ICE is sadly comprised mainly of American racists, who use their job titles as a shield for implementing their White nationalist agendas. These aren’t people who are doing what they claim to be doing—protecting our borders against illegal invaders—they’re just trying to keep America’s birth rate mostly White, because they’re scared, xenophobic assholes.
As an American, I fully oppose these douchebags. America is not a White nation. We’re a non-racial nation, made up of everyone, home to everyone, and better for it. Our best quality is the fact that we welcome everyone, and those amongst us who oppose that are the true anti-Americans. Our history is a shit-show, true; but our ideals are worth fighting for. And the people that are anti-immigration are pro-racism, pure and simple.
You are.
Because the current purge is rooted in racism, not legality. They’re deporting American citizens and people who are here legally as well without due process, blatantly violating the constitution which he swore to defend and uphold.
Trump wants to deport anyone he doesn’t like, which includes anyone that doesn’t like him. Make no mistake, he would deport half the country if he felt he could get away with it. He has no regard for the rule of law and has proven that time and again. What he is doing is tyranny and the real patriots are out there standing up against it.
The state defines what an “illegal immigrant” is. Why should I agree with their definition of an illegal immigrant is?
The Nazis were just rounding up illegal Jews. Why was it so bad that they rounded up illegal Jews?
The plantation owners just wanted to own Black people. Black people had no rights, so what’s the problem with owning them?
Do not conflate legality with morality.
Because they’re revoking legal status from legal immigrants and arresting legal immigrants and its only a matter of time til they deport citizens too
Every study I’ve seen shows illegal immigrants to be a net positive to the economy, while at the same being responsible for fewer crimes than papered immigrants or regular citizens. I wonder why people are willing to go through such social pain and stupidity to attack them. I mean, aside from racism. We should be working on smoothing the way to citizenship, or at a minimum, legality. That would help address the exploitation that takes place (as you mentioned in another post). On a tangent, we really need to do something about universal health care, housing, and the shitty, hateful state of wages in the country while we are at it.
We have a myriad of fundamental problems in this country, illegal immigrants are just a distraction that get the low-information voters fired up and ignoring the real problems.
I think that universal healthcare would be the key to ending undocumented immigration, and more importantly, wage evasion by employers. It is simple: documented immigrants get free healthcare, the same as any citizen. This would allow the state(s) to track the workplace activity of immigrants, and in turn be able to collect taxes, enforce fair wages, and hold businesses accountable.
This also has the effect of allowing citizens to have equal job opportunities when compared to migrants, because both are paid the same. Companies will naturally turn to hiring citizens, simply because they are closer to home. Everyone who isn’t a ghoul wins.
because they arnt targeting “illegal immigrants” its random people, and also immigrants that are here legally, plus they are specifically only targeting non-republican areas because they know blue areas are less likely to fight back and are unarmed. oh and they wont target places like meat packing plants, FARMS, republican, gop will raise hell if they were raided in congress.