If the Feds are willing to illegally federalize National Guard troops, and the National Guard in any given state is willing to obey those orders, it tips the scales significantly. States need to start taking measures to ensure their National Guard is truly under their control. These are the “well regulated militias” referenced in the second amendment, and if they are subject to the whims of a federal tyrant, then the second amendment is moot.
The problem is Democrats are cowards. Newsom has so many options he’s not even trying to use. For example, he could give his own contradicting orders to the California National Guard troops. After all, those would be the only legal orders given to the Guard. Trump is flagrantly violating the law here. If that didn’t work, he could announce that he’s putting any Guard troop deployed by Trump on immediate leave. They’re now on vacation and can walk off base at will. If that doesn’t work, he could defund the troops involved. You’re not getting paid for your time following illegal orders.
Instead, Democrats are cowards, so they make tired cringe jokes about Tacos.
Those people are bring pulled away from their families and lives because Trump wants to have a pissing contest. Some of them will blame the protesters though, so it’s hard to say.
There’s a lot of issues going on, but one of the biggest is nothing about that was illegal.
I mean, if it wasnt legal then we wouldn’t have been able to do it to enforce school desegregation decades ago.
I know we agree in spirit, but in these times it’s important for people to understand what’s happening, why it’s an issue, and what we need to do to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States or, in the case of the District of Columbia, through the commanding general of the National Guard of the District of Columbia.
As Newsom stated in his letter, the order was not issued through him, therefor not pursuant to the law, or in other words, illegal.
Once again: in the context of this regime, the question is not “who’s going to let them”, it’s “who’s going to stop them”. And the answer seems to be “nobody who has the supposed legal authority to do anything appears to be interested in or willing to stop them”.
Well, Newsom is suing which is… fine. I think he should deploy his remaining 20k troops to kick the (4700 and counting) feds out, but that’s playing with fire. Going forward, as I suggested, states need to make sure they control their Guard deployments. This could take the form of legislation or executive orders at the state level, or, since it’s already federal law that the orders go through the governor, a simple memo informing the Guard that anyone from command down to rank & file will be immediately arrested for following illegal orders.
And on your other comment, yes, by the letter of the law that was illegal, although it was a slightly more complicated situation because as the article states:
Eisenhower and Faubus agreed that the Arkansas National Guard would remain at the school to maintain order, so the black students could attend.
… then Faubus reneged on the agreement.
Whatever. Right now, in the time that we are currently living through, during which an unhinged aspiring dictator is deploying military forces on US soil for immoral reasons, is not the time to equivocate about legality.
A simple memo reminding them of the penalties for following illegal orders, and clear examples of such illegal orders seems like a really smart move with minimal downside
Newsom is currently the lawful commander of the California National Guard. He should be directly ordering them to stand down. What is it with this limp-dicked centrist bullshit of “well…I’ll file a lawsuit!”
Fucking cowards. I hope Trump arrests Newsom and has him executed. That would be the fate this coward deserves.
I was with you on the first half, but definitely not on the second half.
If you support executing your political opponents by means of fascism, what makes that any less evil than Trump executing any politician he dislikes (and it seems we’re on that road)?
Legal ≠ moral. Both instances of mobilizing the national guard against the wishes of the states’ governors were illegal, but one was moral and the other is not. One could argue that by breaking the law the first time a precedent was set that allowed it to be done again for a less noble cause, but I disagree. The fact that it was possible for Eisenhower to federalize the national guard without the state governor’s approval in the first place means that nothing would stop it from happening in the future regardless of whether or not a precedent was set.
But again, this isn’t the first time that’s happened. I disagreed with it the prior times, this time, and any potential future times it may happen.
But we have to understand what reality is before we have a chance of fixing it
America’s issues are a lot deeper than trump, and the only good thing about trump burning it all down is we have a great chance to build it back better after. We’re paying the price anyways at this point, we might as well get all we can out of it
Trump IS violating the law. The president can’t just activate the guard any time he damn well feels like it. There are specific conditions that are required, and Trump is flagrantly violating them.
Newsom knows that, but he wants “the fight” to be talking on TV and pointless lawsuits. Bread and circuses.
Neoliberals never want to limit presidential power, because the threat of a Republican having it is the only same reason to vote for a neoliberals, and even that isn’t enough to win elections reliably.
Stop falling for their bullshit, we desperately need people paying attention these days.
Eisenhower had one option to remove the National Guard from Faubus’s control. The president could issue an executive order based on the Insurrection Act of 1807, codified in Title 10 of the U.S. Code under sections 332 to 334 (since renumbered as 252 to 254). Section 332, regarding the “use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority,”
Trump hasn’t invoked the Insurrection Act. He is explicitly in violation of federal law here. The act that he used to activate these troops doesn’t allow the president to take authority of the guard away from the governor.
People say it’s hard to protest because America is so spread out.
It also means that when the Fed tries to crack down on protests, there’s too much ground for them to be everywhere at once.
They can’t handle one city, if they try and deploy all over it’ll be an even bigger cluster fuck, and make the military even more fed up with trump.
If the Feds are willing to illegally federalize National Guard troops, and the National Guard in any given state is willing to obey those orders, it tips the scales significantly. States need to start taking measures to ensure their National Guard is truly under their control. These are the “well regulated militias” referenced in the second amendment, and if they are subject to the whims of a federal tyrant, then the second amendment is moot.
The problem is Democrats are cowards. Newsom has so many options he’s not even trying to use. For example, he could give his own contradicting orders to the California National Guard troops. After all, those would be the only legal orders given to the Guard. Trump is flagrantly violating the law here. If that didn’t work, he could announce that he’s putting any Guard troop deployed by Trump on immediate leave. They’re now on vacation and can walk off base at will. If that doesn’t work, he could defund the troops involved. You’re not getting paid for your time following illegal orders.
Instead, Democrats are cowards, so they make tired cringe jokes about Tacos.
Those people are bring pulled away from their families and lives because Trump wants to have a pissing contest. Some of them will blame the protesters though, so it’s hard to say.
There’s a lot of issues going on, but one of the biggest is nothing about that was illegal.
I mean, if it wasnt legal then we wouldn’t have been able to do it to enforce school desegregation decades ago.
I know we agree in spirit, but in these times it’s important for people to understand what’s happening, why it’s an issue, and what we need to do to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/12406
As Newsom stated in his letter, the order was not issued through him, therefor not pursuant to the law, or in other words, illegal.
Once again: in the context of this regime, the question is not “who’s going to let them”, it’s “who’s going to stop them”. And the answer seems to be “nobody who has the supposed legal authority to do anything appears to be interested in or willing to stop them”.
Well, Newsom is suing which is… fine. I think he should deploy his remaining 20k troops to kick the (4700 and counting) feds out, but that’s playing with fire. Going forward, as I suggested, states need to make sure they control their Guard deployments. This could take the form of legislation or executive orders at the state level, or, since it’s already federal law that the orders go through the governor, a simple memo informing the Guard that anyone from command down to rank & file will be immediately arrested for following illegal orders.
And on your other comment, yes, by the letter of the law that was illegal, although it was a slightly more complicated situation because as the article states:
… then Faubus reneged on the agreement.
Whatever. Right now, in the time that we are currently living through, during which an unhinged aspiring dictator is deploying military forces on US soil for immoral reasons, is not the time to equivocate about legality.
A simple memo reminding them of the penalties for following illegal orders, and clear examples of such illegal orders seems like a really smart move with minimal downside
Newsom is currently the lawful commander of the California National Guard. He should be directly ordering them to stand down. What is it with this limp-dicked centrist bullshit of “well…I’ll file a lawsuit!”
Fucking cowards. I hope Trump arrests Newsom and has him executed. That would be the fate this coward deserves.
I was with you on the first half, but definitely not on the second half.
If you support executing your political opponents by means of fascism, what makes that any less evil than Trump executing any politician he dislikes (and it seems we’re on that road)?
You kind of answered your own question
So you think it was illegal when the NG escorted Black kids to school in Arkansas against the wishes of the Governor of Arkansas?
https://www.history.com/articles/little-rock-nine-brown-v-board-eisenhower-101-airborne
Like, you’re acting like this is unprecedented, and that’s just flat out wrong…
Quick edit:
Newsom has a D by his name, but he’s still a lying piece of shit that was sucking up to the right very very recently.
Don’t just believe anything he says as gospel.
People need to be informed these days, don’t just back anyone on your “team”. Especially not someone who would never consider you as their own team.
Legal ≠ moral. Both instances of mobilizing the national guard against the wishes of the states’ governors were illegal, but one was moral and the other is not. One could argue that by breaking the law the first time a precedent was set that allowed it to be done again for a less noble cause, but I disagree. The fact that it was possible for Eisenhower to federalize the national guard without the state governor’s approval in the first place means that nothing would stop it from happening in the future regardless of whether or not a precedent was set.
What?
It went to the SC, it was/is legal.
You have your opinion on if it should be legal, and are treating that like it’s the actual legal reality.
That is absolutely not how America’s legal system works. And these aren’t the only two examples.
This same precedent came up in 2020 about vaccine mandates. If you hadn’t heard about this before last weekend, that’s fine…
Just don’t insist you’re an expert immediately. Some people paid attention
I disagree with you here but not because of the reason Newsom gave. The deployment of Marines is a direct violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1385.
Those weren’t marines.
And Marines aren’t National Guard…
That’s a different conversation.
But again, this isn’t the first time that’s happened. I disagreed with it the prior times, this time, and any potential future times it may happen.
But we have to understand what reality is before we have a chance of fixing it
America’s issues are a lot deeper than trump, and the only good thing about trump burning it all down is we have a great chance to build it back better after. We’re paying the price anyways at this point, we might as well get all we can out of it
Trump IS violating the law. The president can’t just activate the guard any time he damn well feels like it. There are specific conditions that are required, and Trump is flagrantly violating them.
https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/English-Edition-Archives/January-February-2025/National-Guard/
To be clear, I want it to be illegal.
It’s just not.
Newsom knows that, but he wants “the fight” to be talking on TV and pointless lawsuits. Bread and circuses.
Neoliberals never want to limit presidential power, because the threat of a Republican having it is the only same reason to vote for a neoliberals, and even that isn’t enough to win elections reliably.
Stop falling for their bullshit, we desperately need people paying attention these days.
Trump hasn’t invoked the Insurrection Act. He is explicitly in violation of federal law here. The act that he used to activate these troops doesn’t allow the president to take authority of the guard away from the governor.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-title-10-national-guard-deployment-los-angeles-authority-meaining/
He used title 10, under title 10 National Guard members are federal employees.
The argument is they’re supporting ICE to secure the border, which like everything else I’ve been talking about, isn’t new or even uncommon.
It’s going to bounce around in courts for years before going to the SC which will likely side with trump.
Newsom and the MSM are lying that any lawsuit is a possible path forward.
They want people to feel like something is being done, and for us to give them credit. But it’s just trying to run out the clock.
Marines aren’t national guard, correct. That’s why he’s sent both.
This is a very good, and heartening point.