Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) targeted workers on produce farms in Ventura County Tuesday morning in one of the latest raids in Southern California.
I believe the front will be a little Bigger then just LA after a few days.
People have been looking for a place to focus their energy. 6 months of feeling completely on our heals because Democrats chose a strategy of curl up and die.
People are hungry for action, and these kinds of events exponentiate organizing.
I don’t know, we had a huge protest in my city a few months ago (made the front page of the NYT), but every subsequent attempt to organize has been disappointingly small. I hope this Saturday creates momentum but I worry people will check off the “resistance” box and go back home. We’ll see what happens! 🤞 Actual concrete events happening in LA may enliven people.
As someone who was only just alive in 1985 though, I’m curious where you were in the US in 1985 and if you remember how big or widespread the news coverage was on the MOVE bombing?
I was in H.S. in 85… I don’t remember anything labeled MOVE bombing. Back then it was still big 3 networks for me, I had no cable. Everything was appointment TV including the news.
They can’t really do that in America, there’s too much land and room and food. They could temporarily trap a population within a city by surrounding it with some barricades and stuff but that won’t last long. The population size of the US has a massive ratio of more citizens than law enforcement and military. They can’t take us all.
For someone like me, if the food supplies were all cut off I could just live off of the land by hunting, fishing, and farming.
They can’t really do that in America, there’s too much land and room and food.
50% of the produce we consume is grown in the California central valley. The rest is grown in a few areas of the Great plains and in Florida.
Most of the food you see growing anywhere else isn’t for people, it’s for livestock.
For someone like me, if the food supplies were all cut off I could just live off of the land by hunting, fishing, and farming.
I think you are overestimating just how much food “the land” can provide. You need around an acre a person for subsistence farming, and that is assuming you live in a region that has a decent climate, that you have irrigation, and have access to modern fertilizer and pesticides.
As far as hunting and fishing goes… If a large sector of the population had to live off the land, the wildlife likely wouldn’t last a single season. The only reason we still have the wild animal populations we currently have is because there are strict regulations monitoring the amount of people who hunt and fish.
Early Americans were able to devastate a larger healthier ecology with a tiny fraction of our current population. Most of our country’s natural Forrest and woodland were already destroyed and artificially rehabilitated over a hundred years ago. We have very few old growth Forrest for us to actually live off of.
If it weren’t for petrochemical fertilizer the natural nitrogen cycle wouldn’t be enough to sustain our current population. Since the invention of the haber process in the 1930s we are all just a bad year away from food insecurity.
There are areas and kinds of people who can live off the land, in one way or another. They do exist.
They can live off the land when the vast majority of the population isn’t trying to do the same. Hungry human populations are worse than locust, we can absolutely destroy entire ecologies in weeks.
the military really is in the same boat as the rest of us.
In the scenario they proposed the military would be controlling the means of food production. This isn’t something we have to guess about, there’s plenty of examples of intentional famines like what the Brits did to Bengal, and the Irish, or the Soviets in Ukraine, and unintentional like during China’s cultural revolution. During those famines the military didn’t starve, the common people did.
If those populations who were already subsistence farmers and hunters couldn’t “live off the land” then what makes you think anyone on lemy is going to do any better?
I’m not sure they could control the means of production here.
You don’t think a military force could control the supply line of some farmers? Most of which are already owned by large conglomerates that would gladly follow the orders of the government…
A lot of it is in and around areas that arent ideal terrain for fighting on their side.
Have you been to the central valley? It’s just large open fields and orchards surrounded by gentle rolling hills, it’s not the fucking korengal valley my dude.
Unless they’re airlifting it all out. In which case it still has to fly over terrain that’s not to their advantage. And we also make the missiles here.
The best option for them would be the port of oakland. Theres lots of shitty tech bros there, but you still see tributes to the best and best dressed mlm’s to ever pick up a rifle, some of whom are, while far past fighting age, still kicking around a dense high tech city-and this would be for their food supply line, so it wouldn’t exactly be possible to starve them out.
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The farms are all staffed by people who hate them. Every single one, not just here but especially here. Even the small/mid sized farmers-and i have talked to them-hate this shit, or are literally beibg chased out of the fields, literally as i type this. The logistics lines are disproportionately worked by those same people.
Maybe they could get corn and wheat.
Or maybe you could get marines to pick apples, if you didnt give a single shit about the morale of your troops, health of your trees, abysmal recruiting numbers, already too-small military…
Unless they’re airlifting it all out. In which case it still has to fly over terrain that’s not to their advantage.
Why would they have to fly anything out of the valley? If the military is able to secure supply lines in war zones that have more than small arms resistance I don’t think it’s going to be a challenge to secure them in Cali.
we also make the missiles here.
Who’s we? It’s not like the entire country is going to support a rebellion, especially not anyone in the military industrial complex. Even if you have missiles, you don’t have the weapons platforms or even know how to operate them.
The best option for them would be the port of oakland. Theres lots of shitty tech bros there, but you still see tributes to the best and best dressed mlm’s to ever pick up a rifle, some of whom are, while far past fighting age, still kicking around a dense high tech city-and this would be for their food supply line, so it wouldn’t exactly be possible to starve them out.
What are you talking about? Why would food have to go to Oakland? You don’t ship food from California to the rest of the country on boats… Nor are some old dudes with small arms going to be able to do anything to military convoy.
The farms are all staffed by people who hate them. Every single one, not just here but especially here. Even the small/mid sized farmers-and i have talked to them-hate this shit, or are literally beibg chased out of the fields, literally as i type this. The logistics lines are disproportionately worked by those same people.
Work gangs, prison labour, political prisoners, hungry people willing to capitulate to feed their families…you know the same thing that has happened throughout history. Plus, there’s plenty of conservative chuds in the valley.
I’d be careful with that last point - when a modern people is suddenly forced to turn to the land for sustenance instead of the industrial supply chain, overfishing and overhunting become problems quickly…you won’t be the only person out looking for a meal.
They could temporarily trap a population within a city by surrounding it with some barricades and stuff but that won’t last long.
Why wouldn’t it last long? Is there some sort of organized fighting force of the people we’re not aware of? Didn’t think so.
The population size of the US has a massive ratio of more citizens than law enforcement and military. They can’t take us all.
Yet they already are.
For someone like me, if the food supplies were all cut off I could just live off of the land by hunting, fishing, and farming.
Ah yes, the government has famously left people like you alone and totally won’t turn your land into gravel, drain your water table, and dump the pollution into your river.
Gaza is the testing grounds for what life is about to be like in the West. Starvation will be used as a weapon eventually, and who’s gonna stop them?
I guess we’ll be finding out in LA.
I believe the front will be a little Bigger then just LA after a few days.
There are nationwide protests planed on the fascists bday and he already promised to send the military to any form of protest.
People have been looking for a place to focus their energy. 6 months of feeling completely on our heals because Democrats chose a strategy of curl up and die.
People are hungry for action, and these kinds of events exponentiate organizing.
I don’t know, we had a huge protest in my city a few months ago (made the front page of the NYT), but every subsequent attempt to organize has been disappointingly small. I hope this Saturday creates momentum but I worry people will check off the “resistance” box and go back home. We’ll see what happens! 🤞 Actual concrete events happening in LA may enliven people.
If he really does try and do that it could backfire spectacularly on him.
First Amendment was the practice amendment
I’ll believe it when I see it. Police could bomb their own cities with plastic explosives and Americans won’t do anything about it.
I wonder how many mid-50s or older Americans are on Lemmy?
You didn’t need to be alive when the MOVE bombing happened in order to know about it.
We used to actually learn about shit like this sometimes in public schools…
That’s true, and I did already know about it.
However, being 1 year old at the time it happened I wasn’t in a position to speak up about it or to “allow” it to happen unchallenged.
Us greybeards are here…
Hey, I have a little grey in my beard!
As someone who was only just alive in 1985 though, I’m curious where you were in the US in 1985 and if you remember how big or widespread the news coverage was on the MOVE bombing?
I was in H.S. in 85… I don’t remember anything labeled MOVE bombing. Back then it was still big 3 networks for me, I had no cable. Everything was appointment TV including the news.
Thanks! Thats vaguely what I remember from the gulf war timeframe. I think we got cable a couple years after that.
Definitely more or fewer than you think. Unless you’re absolutely phenomenal at guessing.
I mean its going to be streaming on all channels, all day today, tomorrow, and the especially Saturday.
If you aren’t seeing it, it might have more to do with where you are looking.
The protests won’t go far enough to make a difference and fizzle out like every other “movement” in American history.
You’re right. We should stay indoors and do nothing instead, which will surely make the fascists give up.
None of them have done enough, but plenty have accomplished partial wins.
Of course they won’t, years of docile programming via reality TV shows, and ma sports!
Jokes on them I’ve been dealing with food scarcity for most my life. I forsge more than I shop.
The problem is most don’t and it’s not a sustainable practice for a large sedentary group.
They can’t really do that in America, there’s too much land and room and food. They could temporarily trap a population within a city by surrounding it with some barricades and stuff but that won’t last long. The population size of the US has a massive ratio of more citizens than law enforcement and military. They can’t take us all.
For someone like me, if the food supplies were all cut off I could just live off of the land by hunting, fishing, and farming.
A government that is willing to cut off food supplies, isn’t likely to allow people the freedom to farm, fish or hunt.
First of all, I don’t ask for permission, I do what I want. Freedom can be enforced by the will of the individual.
Secondly, you may be failing to grasp the scope of the American landscape and how difficult it would be to monitor forests, lakes, and rivers.
50% of the produce we consume is grown in the California central valley. The rest is grown in a few areas of the Great plains and in Florida.
Most of the food you see growing anywhere else isn’t for people, it’s for livestock.
I think you are overestimating just how much food “the land” can provide. You need around an acre a person for subsistence farming, and that is assuming you live in a region that has a decent climate, that you have irrigation, and have access to modern fertilizer and pesticides.
As far as hunting and fishing goes… If a large sector of the population had to live off the land, the wildlife likely wouldn’t last a single season. The only reason we still have the wild animal populations we currently have is because there are strict regulations monitoring the amount of people who hunt and fish.
Early Americans were able to devastate a larger healthier ecology with a tiny fraction of our current population. Most of our country’s natural Forrest and woodland were already destroyed and artificially rehabilitated over a hundred years ago. We have very few old growth Forrest for us to actually live off of.
If it weren’t for petrochemical fertilizer the natural nitrogen cycle wouldn’t be enough to sustain our current population. Since the invention of the haber process in the 1930s we are all just a bad year away from food insecurity.
alabama tried this in the past, they lost billions from doing this. florida is currently going through this, as well.
There are areas and kinds of people who can live off the land, in one way or another. They do exist.
They aren’t the majority or the targets here, but they’re around.
The rest is accurate, but the military really is in the same boat as the rest of us.
Sure… And have you ever entered a major US city? What, are people going to “live off the land” in the middle of Central Park? Millions of New Yorkers?
Okay did you read the rest of what i said?
They can live off the land when the vast majority of the population isn’t trying to do the same. Hungry human populations are worse than locust, we can absolutely destroy entire ecologies in weeks.
In the scenario they proposed the military would be controlling the means of food production. This isn’t something we have to guess about, there’s plenty of examples of intentional famines like what the Brits did to Bengal, and the Irish, or the Soviets in Ukraine, and unintentional like during China’s cultural revolution. During those famines the military didn’t starve, the common people did.
If those populations who were already subsistence farmers and hunters couldn’t “live off the land” then what makes you think anyone on lemy is going to do any better?
Okay so I’m going to ignore most of what you said because i already replied to it, but:
I’m not sure they could control the means of production here. A lot of it is in and around areas that arent ideal terrain for fighting on their side.
You don’t think a military force could control the supply line of some farmers? Most of which are already owned by large conglomerates that would gladly follow the orders of the government…
Have you been to the central valley? It’s just large open fields and orchards surrounded by gentle rolling hills, it’s not the fucking korengal valley my dude.
Unless they’re airlifting it all out. In which case it still has to fly over terrain that’s not to their advantage. And we also make the missiles here.
The best option for them would be the port of oakland. Theres lots of shitty tech bros there, but you still see tributes to the best and best dressed mlm’s to ever pick up a rifle, some of whom are, while far past fighting age, still kicking around a dense high tech city-and this would be for their food supply line, so it wouldn’t exactly be possible to starve them out.
The farms are all staffed by people who hate them. Every single one, not just here but especially here. Even the small/mid sized farmers-and i have talked to them-hate this shit, or are literally beibg chased out of the fields, literally as i type this. The logistics lines are disproportionately worked by those same people.
Maybe they could get corn and wheat.
Or maybe you could get marines to pick apples, if you didnt give a single shit about the morale of your troops, health of your trees, abysmal recruiting numbers, already too-small military…
Why would they have to fly anything out of the valley? If the military is able to secure supply lines in war zones that have more than small arms resistance I don’t think it’s going to be a challenge to secure them in Cali.
Who’s we? It’s not like the entire country is going to support a rebellion, especially not anyone in the military industrial complex. Even if you have missiles, you don’t have the weapons platforms or even know how to operate them.
What are you talking about? Why would food have to go to Oakland? You don’t ship food from California to the rest of the country on boats… Nor are some old dudes with small arms going to be able to do anything to military convoy.
Work gangs, prison labour, political prisoners, hungry people willing to capitulate to feed their families…you know the same thing that has happened throughout history. Plus, there’s plenty of conservative chuds in the valley.
I’d be careful with that last point - when a modern people is suddenly forced to turn to the land for sustenance instead of the industrial supply chain, overfishing and overhunting become problems quickly…you won’t be the only person out looking for a meal.
Another point to add.
People will likely become a targets of other people hunting.
When there is only so much to go around…
Well at least our animal ecosystems are currently robust and thriving, right??
Wild hogs certainly are.
Get a couple of analog meat thermometers, you don’t want the worms in them bad boys.
I think more human lives will be lost than wild lives, but I can be wrong.
Why wouldn’t it last long? Is there some sort of organized fighting force of the people we’re not aware of? Didn’t think so.
Yet they already are.
Ah yes, the government has famously left people like you alone and totally won’t turn your land into gravel, drain your water table, and dump the pollution into your river.
Yeah, looks like someone has never heard of the Siege of Serajevo. Really was not that long ago…
Garbage doomer take. Have the courage to find some optimism in life.
training with the IDF, and using PALINTR by the leo to track people down.