The Android ecosystem has been feeling more like an invasive chaotic advertisement machine the past few years. The play store is a cesspool, the weather app switch was poorly executed, Google Podcasts went to the graveyard, and Google pay getting shut down meant I had to switch back to vomits Venmo.
I still have Android gaming handhelds, but why wouldn’t I just get an iPhone the next time I go to replace my phone? I can’t believe I’m even saying that after being so die hard Android so for years.
Fuck Google
I hope they fail.
so no modded apps, no emulation, no unauthorised chat apps. hopefully some root mod will make this irrelevant.
Google says it’s no different than checking IDs at the airport.
Fucker, if I own the airport, own the planes in the airport, am the only person using my own planes in my own airport, then nobody is asking for my ID.
Our phone, our software choice.
But what if you owned nothing and were happy about it?
I am toying with the idea of creating a PDA of sort from a raspberry pie, touchscreen and a powerbank. Case can be 3d printed, it would be bulky af and equipped with Tails or some other secure OS.
Why not just get a PinePhone?
Because they are cool and build phones from scratch
Got it, you want a project more than a finished product. I can respect that. :)
Well, sort of…
Two things especially worth noting from the article.
If you have a non-Google build of Android on your phone, none of this applies.
This means that at least GrapheneOS will be unaffected for now. Other ROMs without gapps will be unaffected only as long as you don’t install gapps. Since Graphene has a sandbox for them, I’m assuming it’ll be fine. That is, unless Google decides to lock the bootloader entirely.
In September 2026, Google plans to launch this feature in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand. The next step is still hazy, but Google is targeting 2027 to expand the verification requirements globally.
So most users worldwide still have at least 1.5 years until it’s implemented. Plenty of time to get a Pixel and install Graphene on it. Or to figure out some other plan.
Don’t get me wrong - this is insane, unreasonable and horrible news for everyone. We should push back as hard as physically possible against it. However, at the very least we still have some time to figure things out before the policy rolls out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Google stop allowing BL unlocking soon… Following Samsung and Xiaomi (although Xiaomi technically can be unlocked, in reality you’ll not be able to do so nowadays unless you pay someone to do it via remote USB shit for you)
I’m getting Huawei
Consider a Volla Phone with UBPorts.
UBPorts can also be installed on Fairphone.
Literally just as bad lol
Yes. Would be a protest buy.
I would spend more money and get Chinese os to just not fund Google.The way I see it this is the last drop in the bucket for android openness anyways.
Fair enough- at least you’re not under any illusions that they’re less restrictive and scummy.
EU: How often do I have to teach you, old man?
EU: Thank you Google for complying with the DSA.
This is a a huge part of it, the whole “prevent illegal” parts.
- “easier reporting of illegal content”
- “less exposure to illegal content”
- “level-playing field against providers of illegal content”
The EU isn’t going to punish them for this, they will hold this up as the golden standard.
The EU waltz.
One step forward.
One step to the left.
Two steps to the right.
Three steps back.Repeat.
The Cyber Resilience Act may also have something to do with this.
Inside the EU’s chest there are two wolves.
Just as they did with Apple when they forced them to allow sideloading? So yeah, the EU will push massively against this if its implemented there.
You mean when they forced Apple to implement the “trusted trader” scheme.
Where does it say that Google is blocking all side loading?
It says they are blocking the installing of unsigned apps. This is the macOS Gatekeeper being the only option on Android. You can still download and install apps that aren’t in the Play Store. So the EU will still love this as 3rd party apps can still exist, but at the same time anything “illegal” can be reported to them immediately.
It’s effectively becoming the gate keeper in the same way apple only allowing app installs through its app store only is a gate keeper.
Ok this needs harsh pushback, because phones are affordable, computers are not. There needs to be a massive project dealing with making phones platform agnostic.
Have you shopped for those items recently? You have 200 buck computers and 2000 buck phones.
Yep but also 200 buck phones.
Where are all the open source phone OSes? Where are the OS agnostic capable hardware phones? Technically some do exist, but I don’t think they have any significant market share. Hope I’m wrong though.
Google slowly suffocated all the 3rd party rom vendors.
Essentially every browser that’s not Firefox or Safari is reskinned Google chrome for a reason. Because it’s insanely expensive to build and maintain browsers. Mobile operating systems aren’t much different in this regard.
That’s not exactly true. There are several FOSS mobile OSes, such as PostmarketOS, Mobian, Ubuntu Touch, and the various Android ROMs. Once it’s compatible, keeping that OS updated is relatively simple.
The issues with mobile OSes are:
- many phones lock their bootloadersl, and every phone mfg seems to do things a little differently
- so many different phone models with different hardware includes, none of which has manufacturer support in Linux
- closed firmware for cell modems, which have their own little OS that needs to work with the main OS; trying to touch this runs into regulatory issues
Basically, supporting a new phone has a lot of upfront work with very little ongoing work.
Web browsers, on the other hand, need to stay updated with constantly shifting web standards, they’re a huge malware target so they need to keep up on CVEs, and pages are getting more complex causing performance and rendering issues, and everyone blames the browser. Supporting a new platform is generally trivial, but the ongoing work is immense.
They’re very different beasts.
I will pay hard cash money for some devs to bring postmarketos to quality hardware vendors.
I’m all for buying a pinephone, but man are we missing out on the full potential from some genuinely good OEM hardware stuff like razr flip.
Aside from google doing google things, android has been a bloated java pos toy OS for nearly a decade now. It completely wastes the full potential of superior hardware by running everything on a shitty JVM known as the ART that was designed for when devices had <512mb of RAM. A Nintendo 3DS can do better multi process tasking than modern android which regularly kills app threads for no reason other than to screw with you because you dared to switch to a different app for 5 seconds.
Android was supposed to be the big apple killer because of its closeness to a desktop OS with heavy emphasis on widespread features and functionality. Even technically speaking, rooting got you there if you wanted to run whatever straight on the linux environment or swap kernels.
Its nothing but a ripoff iOS clone now. Android 7/8 was probably the peak of development and usability, and even back then people were complaining it didn’t have groundbreaking improvements like 6 or lollipop.
I don’t think that it’s the lack of quality hardware what is stopping adoption of Linux on phones. There are many resons why I don’t consider someting like PostmarketOS viable as a daily driver for most.
First of all some apps are just not available on Linux. Banking apps are a prime example. Most banks are now requiring some form of app where I live and they don’t even consider Linux. But that’s also another problem in it self.
Secondly: driver support. Drivers aren’t something one thinks about when talking about phones. But they are needed and mobile phones being what they are, most manufacturers aren’t really open to do anything in that regard.
As an Android developer I’m also annoyed by the restrictive power management of Android. But it’s there for a reason. On PostmarketOS my phone would be dead after sitting around all day doing noting. On Android I can maybe squeeze two to three days of use out of the same phone. And that’s not even with the OEM rom.
That being said, I hope for a future were all of the current issues can be solved and we finally have a viable alternative to Apple and Google.
To be clear, I’m in no way trying to defend what Google is doing.
I honestly don’t care about apps. I switched to GrapheneOS and opted to not use Google Play Services, so my app selection is very limited, especially for things like banking apps. It turns out I can just use the website for the vast majority of them, and I can fill in the gaps with FDroid apps.
The main things stopping me from using a Linux phone (eg PostmarketOS) are:
- MMS compatibility - I use this a lot with family, and getting everyone on Signal or something isn’t going to happen
- battery efficiency - the best I’ve heard is 8 hours with light use, and there are still issues receiving notifications in standby mode
- hardware quality issues and drivers - every phone supported by PostmarketOS either has a bunch of unsupported hardware (ie no camera support), or the hardware is poor (ie the PinePhone has crappy audio)
I don’t need a flagship with top tier driver support, I just need basic phone things to work. I’m even okay with poor camera quality, provided I can take pictures of things and clearly read the text later. I don’t need much in terms of app support, and I’m willing to help port things I need. But my phone needs to work as a phone, and it needs to do so all day without needing to charge until night.
Yeah, I tried to use it as my daily driver a while back and what bugged me most was the terrible battery efficiency. Running the full desktop version of Firefox certainly didn’t help. At that point the camera also didn’t have any drivers. Since theres been some progress and we now have a work in progress driver for that model. Frankly it’s amazing that this works at all and I’m incredibly grateful for anyone working on this.
I’ve actually been rather lucky and managed to convince most of my friends to join me on Signal so we barely need to rely on SMS anymore. But last time I checked there weren’t any real Signal clients availabe for Linux phones. Of course, one could always use the desktop version but that still requires a phone to be linked to. Someone has managed to get the Matrix/Signal bridge working and rely on Matrix for the final delivery but that seems like too much tinkering for me :D
Don’t get me wrong, I think the work that’s been done is amazing, my point is that it’s still not daily driver ready. I want to help out, I just don’t have the time anymore with a full-time job and kids. If it was daily drive-able, I could probably spare a few hours here and there to improve things (port apps, track down bugs, etc).
I hope it gets there before I need a new phone. Last year I switched to a Pixel 8 for GrapheneOS and cut out most of my Google Play apps, so I should be good for a few years, but I’d very much like to ditch Android entirely next time.
For now, I got my SO to use Signal, but that’s it.
The only way to log into my bank on the website is to use the phone two factor authentication app, which only works with Google Play Services… 💩
I’m considering getting a dedicated login device which can sit on my desk all day doing nothing else.
Which 2FA app is that? I use Aegis (replaces Google Authenticator, available on FDroid) and Symantec VIP (from Google Play, but via Aurora and runs w/o Google Play Services). Is it something different?
Most of them don’t support generic 2FA codes and sadly require some sort of proprietary app that talks to their servers. Setting them up usually also requires some sort of identification; think receiving a pin in the post. As far as I can tell, the only other option for me is to rent some sort of pin generation terminal from the bank which is, of course, ridiculously expensive.
FYI: Apple got sued for blocking other app stores. This would prevent f-droid from being installable
f-droid would be verified right?
It’d be up to Google to do so, and they probably will just as an example of them totally not being a monopoly “look we even allowed a competing store”.
If you have the ability to, don’t use a smartphone. You’ll be better off and you don’t have to care about stuff like this anymore.
I wish I had… Got me a VoLTE capable feature phone and tried but it’s insanely difficult to get people to understand that you’re only available on call or SMS now (+no MMS here) lol
For real, when this thing rolls out, I’m going to stop updating and try to still use my foss apps for as long as they still work, once my phone eventually becomes useless I’m not going to spend 400 on an expensive phone just so I can run custom roms. I will have to just get used to not having a computer in my pocket all the time again.
I kinda miss my BlackBerry.
Kinda? More like deeply.
Hands down the best experience I have had on a phone was my z10. Over 10 years later, and I still use BlackBerry’s keyboard.
Did some research and here are your options:
- use custom mod (the new restriction only applies to certified devices). You can use microG (/e/, iode, Lineage) or sandboxing (GrapheneOS) to run apps requiring Google services. Google will still try to kill it but my bet is it will still work for at least a couple of years
- Ubuntu Touch - you can buy new devices with it, it can run android apps using waydroid but you will not be able to run any apps requiring google services. It can run native Linux apps. Native UT apps are build using QML. It has a completely new system API so it’s closer to Android then native Linux. It’s based on Halium which uses the kernel from Android
- PostmarketOS - native Linux running native Linux apps. Can use waydroid. Few supported devices but everything works on PinePhone Pro and few others phones.
- Droidian or similiar - Debian running on Halium. Kind of half way between PostmarketOS and Ubunut Touch. Native Linux but running on Android based kernel
Personally, I will stick with GrapheneOS for now (my Pixel still has at least 6 years of support). When I’m unable to run all the apps I need on it I will switch to two phones setup: stock Android for work/car apps, some Linux phone for everything else. When my Pixel dies I will switch to iPhone.
Google has already started killing GrapheneOS by removing device trees from AOSP releases. Android 16 works fine, but for how long?
I would imagine the first thing any custom ROM would do is bypass Google’s app restrictions.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in 3 years I would need to pass hardware attestation to install a calculator app from the Play store.
I would imagine the first thing any custom ROM would do is bypass Google’s app restrictions.
Those restrictions don’t apply to custom ROMs. Yes, it’s clear Google is trying to kill custom ROMs but I think we still have couple of years. Linux phones are improving fast and I think in 5 years we will end up in the same spot we were with PCs 20 years ago: you will be able do most of daily driving on a Linux phones but some apps just won’t be possible to run (Authenticator apps, banking apps, Whats App, Android Auto…). Dual booting will not be possible so most probably I will end up with two phones: daily driver and work/car phone.
There are not going to be apps on Linux phones.
Definitely not banking apps.Tbh situation looks dire as fuck.
Use a bank with a good web interface…
Some places are killing the web interface entirely and going app-only.
Sorry most people won’t be choosing bank based on that
I guess bitcoin finally has a usecase /s
Well, most people use iOS or android, so we are talking about a very specific and dedicated bunch here.
GrapheneOS still intends to support all the supported devices until EOL. The sideloading change doesn’t affect them. It won’t apply to GrapheneOS. It only applies to certified OSes and GrapheneOS is not certified because it doesn’t license Google Mobile Services. As per the rip out of the device trees for Pixels, that just makes Pixels like other phones. GrapheneOS has been able to expand it’s automation to build that device support themselves. For new devices, making the support will take longer than it did in the past though, but they will still support those Pixels, as long as they meet the hardware requirements and still allow third-party OS support with all security features intact. Besides that GrapheneOS is actively talking with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about tha
Its Nothing Phone right? It has to be, LG is dead, Sony has a niche, Samsung can get fucked, Moto is budget, HMD wants to be Nokia but I just dont see it, Asus?
What are u talking about. Were u living under a rock? - Google killed off most custom roms
What’s a good custom ROM for a Samsung Fold 7? Just bought one and it’s my dream phone so so I don’t want to give it up so soon already, just so I can watch YouTube without ads. Planned on keeping it for at least the next 4-5 years…
You really should have thought about that before buying the device. You cannot install a custom ROM on my Samsung device anymore.
You always have to look at what devices custom ROMs support BEFORE buying them.
If you want to use custom ROMs you have to check support before buying a phone. Fold 7 is not supported by any custom ROMs from what I can see. Also, I’m pretty sure you can just use Fennec with Adblock on stock Android and not have ads.
If you want custom roms, you have a fairly restricted set of options for phones.
Do any alternatives allow using banking apps or android pay or android auto?
I realize there are no substitutes for banking apps, but are there any alternatives for android auto or pay if those cannot be installed? Preferably Linux alternatives.
The substitutes for banking apps are banking websites. If your bank does not allow you to use your bank from a website, you should switch banks. I did.
Curve is not available in US and has terrible reviews on Play store.
I’d switch in a heartbeat, but I can’t live without a smart watch and having to pay with physical cc again would be a massive downgrade.
I have a suspicion that all the android clones will become a much worse/unusable experience once Google implements these changes.
Availability in the US might be a bit of a challenge, as the Google/Apple duopoly has solidified greatly over the years there. Europe has the entire BoycottUS movement these days, so there are a lot of attempts at developing something independent there. But as with most new solutions, they have the added difficulty of being compared to these bigger companies who’ve already had many years to develop and perfect their solutions.
The choice boils down to how much you value your principles over comforts, and whether downgrading to physical cards is worth it. Personally I’ve recently done just that.In regards to Android clones becoming worse, I saw GrapheneOS say on Mastodon that it won’t affect them in any significant way. Hopefully this is the case for most, and will remain the case.
Seriously, I see these custom Android Auto USB Sticks that people use to watch Netflix and I just want to know how they hooked into the APIs to do that
