• RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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    10 hours ago

    Wikipedia itself (and fwiw commonly others don’t either in my experience) doesn’t the talked about movements and parties as fitting under that umbrella, since they’re conflicting with too much of the basic defining principles. Imo that makes sense, but if you were to use a broader definition or going “if it fits even one part then it counts”, then I guess I could see them fitting under it.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      10 hours ago

      It fits more than one part, though, and that’s because ideology has to be judged in the context of the base mode of production. Both fascism and liberalism are founded on capitalism.

      • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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        10 hours ago

        It just doesn’t seem like the sort of Wikipedia definition and the common interpretation I usually encounter agree with you on this one since the mentioned movements aren’t counted. But of course it’s not one interpretation to rule them all, just using Wikipedia as representative of the common viewpoint.

          • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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            10 hours ago

            In that it doesn’t count those movements as part of liberalism or those parties under that umbrella. It’s the reason I posted those lists above.

              • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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                9 hours ago

                Sure and it could be a salient point if it left out a few. It does tell you something when none of the parties in those movements are included though. Even in the articles for those particular ideologies you don’t see the claim that they’re subsets of liberalism, but a few mentions how they’re trying to counter liberal values.

                I don’t think it’s an accidental omission.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  9 hours ago

                  Wikipedia isn’t going to word for word agree with Marxists, my point is that using Wikipedia at its own word, parties like Republicans fit into liberalism.

                  • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
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                    9 hours ago

                    I mean I’m not sure if Wikipedia actually counts MAGA part of the party as liberals. I don’t think it does. That’s more along the lines of movements I was talking about. European alt-right the same deal.

                    But if you’re working from a specifically Marxist viewpoint I’m guessing it uses a broader definition that includes those movements.