If they can, they will. That’s the only rule you need to know about business and politics.
Knowing this is at the level of life and death.
So hypothetically, what if a bunch of protestors showed up with IC E shirts/pants/etc… without license plates and started to protest? How would they know who was who at that point?
It doesn’t even look that hard to do given how much memorabilia there is online.
Well, Halloween just happened, so there are probably convincing costumes available on discount. Just saying…
Ok time for everyone to dress like I’ve agents then. Masks for all.
I’m not entirely sure, but modern cameras can see through fabric, so I’m afraid you’ll have to buy a mask made of special materials.
Is it illegal to have a facemask? People should start carrying around ski masks in their vehicles in case ICE approaches them. If they claim it’s illegal then why the fuck is ICE wearing them?
It’s harder to racially profile a masked person or identify them in general.
Because it is an authoritarian regime now, and not a state of law and order anymore.
They use facial recognition on us while we are not allowed to see their faces.
These guys need de-masking.
With their mask-wearing they’re practically advertising their methods. We should take the clue. Everyone still has their COVID masks, right?
Not the point. As long as they remain masked there will be no accountability.
Facial recognition can use nose bridge characteristics, eye distance, eye angle, eye color, etc.
Gait detection can also fingerprint.
Document everything and there will be accountability.
If possible, use a zoom lens and get closeups of their eyes. They are unique signatures.
Eh, I’m fine with them wearing masks. I’m not fine with them breaking the law and not being accountable. If they wear masks (or even if they don’t), they need to be ready to show ID and recite their badge number.
No, they are law enforcement and should be readily identifiable the community they serve. Including their face. Also being masked makes it harder for the people they’re interacting with to understand what they’re saying. They lose all the non-verbal communication that comes from the face. Them being masked has absolutely zero upside to the public.
What badge number? They won’t do that. They need demasking.
Every officer has a badge number that uniquely identifies then, and they are legally required to provide that information. When filing a complaint or a lawsuit, you’ll provide their name and badge number. If they refuse, you provide as much information as you can (area, time of day, type of vehicle, vehicle number, other officers and badge numbers involved, etc) so they can track the officer down.
I don’t know how ICE works specifically, but many police departments require their officers to carry business cards with that information and hand them out upon request.
Civilians have a right to verify that the people involved are actually officers and have a right to identify individual offices to report misconduct.
I don’t care if officers wear masks, I only care that they can be uniquely identified.
Have you ever seen an example of an ICE agent sharing a badge number on video from this year?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Have you seen an instance where a citizen or legal immigrant calmly asked for name and badge number and was refused?
They need lifetimes in prison for treason and domestic terrorism.
We will never get there while they are anonymous. The path to prison starts with de-masking.
You can’t prosecute what has no identification.
Every single one of them has a timecard they’re punching with a name, collective punishment against the entire agency should be on the table.
Even those sitting back behind a desk pushing paperwork are enabling the thugs in the streets.
Again though, until you connect their actions on the street, to a face, prosecution will never be possible.
The need unmasking, on the street.
Charge them all!! It’s a criminal organization.
Deport all alien, some of them are criminal.
Imprison all of ice, some of them are criminal.
Same logic.
Not all foreigners are criminals. But all members of a gang are gang members.
Isn’t it illegal in US, to be a member of an organization that has an obviously criminal purpose and/or obviously criminal methods?
An ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate—if the app says the person is an alien
Cool, so I guess that means I can ignore evidence of the person/people at the door being law enforcement before enforcing my 2nd Amendment rights and state self-defense laws that also allow me to shoot to protect others.
Yeah you can, but you’ll probably get killed. If you’re willing to do that though, then at least make it worthwhile
ICE don’t even show their ID do they? They think real police only have warrants and show their ID for no reason. They smahter than all of history combined you know. /s
That depends on who you ask, but likely the courts would side with a citizen requesting ID. The policy seems to be that they must “when it is practical and safe to do so.”
AFAIK, this issue has not been tried in court though.
What is the odds that court is where you go?
There’s so many other outcomes I keep hearing about in your news, but I don’t know the odds.
In practice, pretty low! In the vast majority of cases, people are released within a few hours and not sent to one of the larger detention facilities. As much as the news sensationalizes the handful of cases where that doesn’t happen, the likelihood is still quite low that I wouldn’t get due process.
If I saw an ICE operation in my neighborhood, I wouldn’t be too worried about going up to them and demanding their name and badge number. I’m not going to be “disappeared” or anything like that, especially as a US citizen. The vast majority of those targeted are actually illegal immigrants, and the extras arrested are often obstructing justice in one way or another. If I approach it completely legally, I don’t think I’d be falsely accused of something else by those officers.
Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% against what ICE is doing. I think they’re being a bit too fast and loose with their information, such that they arrest or detain far too many people without actual cause, and those they do arrest with cause they mistreat. I’m not necessarily against illegal immigrants getting deported, but that should be handled with respect and restraint, at least until we get policy to get these good people on some form of temporary status. If someone currently has work here, there should be a really easy way to get that turned into a legal work visa.
We should act on protecting our rights and then ask questions later.
Yup. If someone is abducting someone else and doesn’t self-identify, that sounds like an open and shut self-defense case, provided you survive the encounter.
Does the US legal system still exist in any sense that it should in a democracy?
I ask because I don’t understand how all this is possible in a constitutional state: Masked brutes who arbitrarily kidnap people on the open street without even identifying themselves, people who are interned without due process and then often simply disappear without a trace in the administrative system, total surveillance without cause, and many other massive violations that the US legal system seems to enable rather than prevent, as it should.
All of this already looks very much like a dictatorship to me, i.e., an unjust state, as none of this can be possible with a democratic constitution - at least not with one that is actually upheld by the legal system.
From a distance it looks like the American people don’t realize what’s happening and accept it because “it will be over in 4 years”. Keeping them frightened of losing their breadcrumbs also works very well.
That’s my impression too. After everything the regime has done so far, I think it’s pretty clear that it can no longer be removed by legal means - the legal system already seems to me to have been infiltrated too deeply for that.
It also seems likely to me that MAGA will no longer allow free elections, because that would carry the risk of being voted out of office, which, even in the corrupt US system, could mean severe legal consequences for many of the regime’s followers and for all the misdeeds that have already been committed in less than a year. I don’t think MAGA will take that chance, especially since ICE is already set up as a kind of secret police force with a budget equivalent to the military spending of a medium-sized country. I mean, what else could an agency like this possibly need such an astronomical budget for other than as a private army loyal to the regime and thus a safeguard in case of resistance from the regular army or the police?
In short: I think the outlook is very bleak, and like you, I’m not convinced that the majority of US citizens are aware of how dangerous the situation is.
From what I’ve seen inside the country, the majority do not see it. The people who do see it aren’t strong enough to fix it, yet…
it can no longer be removed by legal means
It can, it just requires and act of Congress (well, two actually, impeachment and removal), an act by the VP (or maybe the cabinet? I’d need to check), or maybe an act of the Supreme Court to enable lower courts to sentence the president. None of those are currently willing to do so, but that could change after the midterms next year.
MAGA will no longer allow free elections
I guess we’ll find out next year.
I think your post is quite paranoid, but we’ll see I guess.
It does not. The legal system has essentially lost the ability to be a check on the power of the executive branch. Partly because of the capture of the judiciary and regulatory bodies by right-wing extremists and partly because of the speed at which the executive branch is acting illegally - it takes time to build cases and the jsutice system can’t keep up.
At a certain point, we should just arrest the President, Vice President, and cabinet while we work through the paperwork. I don’t know much about Chuck Grassley, but he can run things while we get through the trials.
The judiciary “interprets” the constitution. Trump filled the judiciary with loyalist or otherwise ideologically aligned judges during this term and his previous. The supreme court ruled last year that the president has immunity, and the president has the ability to pardon people, so it seems the administration is pretty much “above the law.” Even when the courts do push back, they’re acting like they’re powerless, and the admin’s tactics seems to be just ignoring, stalling, or taking the “ain’t no rules says a dog can’t play basketball” approach to working around the courts. Yes, the constitution has been severely weakened, and will probably continue to weaken.
Does the US legal system still exist in any sense that it should in a democracy?
Hybrid Regime is how I describe the US. It’s a weird limbo state between Democracy and Autocracy (because if this was a full autocracy, I wouldn’t have access to Lemmy and most anti-trump media would’ve been raided and shut down). Afaik, they aren’t doing exit controls yet.
The major difference between the US and PRC (where I came from), is that Americans seem more willing to resist the government compared to mainland Chinese, and these demonstrations in the US are actually being reported on, in China, its absolute silence, nobody even knows about the very little protests that do happen.
But, by the time EU starts accepting American Refugees, it’d probabably be too late and they would’ve imposed exit controls by then.
Idk what will happen, only time will tell.
Its in a transitionary state but it’s getting there extremely quickly
Does the US legal system still exist in any sense that it should in a democracy?
No.
No.
The people are so gaslit they will attack you if you say otherwise.
I wonder why our allies aren’t helping at this point. Surely they understand where this goes if they don’t stop it sooner rather than later. Europe is laughing at Americans ignoring the tiger that will eat them soon.
IDK what to do about the gaslighting by Fox and right wing media… Too many people trust things without verification and it’s the reason our country is in such despair right now
I am German and I am appalled by the behavior of our government: Instead of standing up to Trump and his henchmen and becoming independent from the US, they are kowtowing to him, even though it is completely obvious how little Trump cares about his so called allies—and since the US is nowadays blackmailing Europe with tariffs and so on, it takes a lot of imagination to still call them allies, especially when all halfway rational people are particularly disturbed by all the inhuman Nazi shit.
Unfortunately, however, the weak position of the current German government was already absolutely foreseeable before the last federal election, because the Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, is actually more of a US lobbyist than a politician (among other things, he was chairman of the supervisory board of Black Rock Germany until 2022 and held various positions in business lobby organizations such as the Atlantik-Brücke – a conservative think tank). Nothing can be expected from these people, although I unfortunately also think that US citizens should not count on any external support anyway.
Why your “allies” don’t help? Well, the USA shouldn’t have spit in our face to begin with.
We have enough to fix in our own country with your stupid “USA first” moves.
Endure your own shit while we endure your shit…
It wasn’t people from America who made Native Americans move and brought slaves over…
I don’t think they know about Second Colonisation.
Nobody bothered to make federal agents wearing masks illegal, and eventually they decided to do it.
I’m not going to excuse ICE and all the shit they are up to. I’m just going to point out that immigration status doesn’t require the same process to determine as the guilt or innocence of some other crime. In a murder trial, you have to prove motive, opportunity, etc beyond a reasonable doubt. With immigration status, it’s simpler: either you can document your legal right to be in the country or you can’t. When someone isn’t supposed to be in the country we don’t jail them for years to rehabilitate them and then release them into the population. We remove them. So everything about this feels and looks different from a standard criminal due process because it is different. Even without the aggressive tactics, masks, and all attendant bullshit, it would still be different.
Due process is recognized as a human‑rights protection in almost all democratic countries and generally applies regardless of citizenship; it helps prevent arbitrariness and abuse of power.
The fundamental safeguard against arbitrary state detention is habeas corpus or its functional equivalent: a person detained must be brought before a judge so the lawfulness of the detention can be reviewed and so the detainee can be informed of the charges against them.
ICE denies detainees even this, for which there can be absolutely no excuse in any reasonably civilized country.
It does but we’re in an act first ask questions later regime.
Yup, it just takes forever to get anything through the courts. We’re just now getting to the tariff nonsense, for example.
Land of the free (for white people)
Time to start wearing face paint / face tattoos that fuck with facial recognition.
In their world, resisting surveillance will be probable cause for arrest, because you must have something to hide and need to be investigated.
It doesn’t matter. At this point resistance is a responsibility. They will lie and make shit up either way so challenge them while you still can.
But it’s my religious markings from my officially recognized religion/church.
Like that makes a difference when they pick you up in a unmarked Ford transit and drop you off at the
concentration campice detention facilityis it Christian? no? straight to jail, terrorist.
Yeah but it’s not THEIR religion, so you still are suspicious…
Even worse
I don’t think anything like that would help. Especially over the last several years with the huge rise of things like Snapchat filters where people can take photos of themselves in various situations with various costumes, various themes. I’m sure all of that was data mined for someone’s purpose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_vision_dazzle it’s been done before. AI facial recognition gets a little overhyped
A recent famous case that comes to mind is when some independent researchers found an ex-RAF terrorist on the run (or call her whatever your political inclination suits) via facial recognition of photos on social media of a capobeira club. I assume the reference material were some age old photos as she was on the run for decades.
I don’t know much about facial recognition but I only heard it works damn well and considering OS and phone manufacturers employing it and are confident enough to not have their users locked out or compromise security let’s me assume that it works damn well.
Is that why cyberpunk media always has people wearing face tats.
Sometimes it’s explicitly called out for that reason ya. Can’t say all the time though.
Um, Americans also realize they’re ABDUCTING people without their consent too, right? And have been, for like months now?
Most of us are well aware of that. I live in a neighborhood with a pretty high Hispanic population. ICE was reported just a few blocks from my house on Thursday, zero trick-or-treaters on Friday. There are still a discouraging about of people saying they support Trump and what he’s doing on Nextdoor. I want to believe they’re bots.
Yup ice is in my neighborhood too, I’m trying to keep a look out and help anyone I can. I have a balaclava ski mask with prom night stitched into the forehead.
Hopefully they just don’t kno a how bad things are on the ground. Everything looks fine when your head is buried in the sand.
What is the point of comments like this? Yes, we realize this. Are you just hearing about it? Do we really have to face each new horror with admonishments that it is distracting us from the last horror?
It has been years(let us remember Obama), it is only just now that drumpf is in office they realize that people are getting literally disappeared.
As they wear masks…
We can wear masks, too…for health reasons. I predict an increase in germaphobes.
Imagine if they actually try to ban medical face masks, not for some cockamamie pseudoscience reason, but because we don’t have the right to evade their facial recognition scheme?
Remember kids, Juggalo makeup defeats facial recognition. Woop woop!
Everybody wear drag queen makeup!
I also hear beards still confuse the system so that’s nice
Alright, that’s it, I’m going full juggalo.
Reminder to everyone that it is COVID season, so wear a mask for your health.
And flu and cold season. Consider wearing gloves to keep your hands safe from diseases as well. Consider tinted glasses as well to keep the sun out of your eyes, and a hat or hoodie to protect from rain or snow.
Just basic health things, completely unrelated to cameras or anything.
We do like staying healthy
You may also consider carrying a firearm. It’s hibernation season, and the bears can get a bit frisky.
Bear spray also works on wild dogs, which are increasingly becoming a problem in suburban areas.
Nice! And it’s far less illegal of you happen to go to a national or state park or something. Good idea, I have some bear spray from when I went to Glacier National Park, I’ll have to bring them around in case I meet a particularly nasty one.
Wild hogs ain’t no joke either.
Lol. You never know when one might jump out at you from the forest or something. Don’t get too close though, just spray and run away.
Facial Recognition has always been racist this is nothing new in a broad sense.
There’s always been facial rec. In the old days, they recognized that “He looks black, that can’t be his car.”
So look, this is just gonna happen. It’s legal to film people in public (in the US) and we all know stores, etc. are already using facial recognition.
The real problem here is the (apparent, though almost certainly assured) lack of responsible use of the data. Scanning faces means you also get time, place, and event/activity, and the citizens then have zero control of what the govt does with this, who they share it with (e.g. Palantir), etc. All prior collection of US person data required appropriate approval, limited scope of access, and timely adjudication/disposal. But ICE is (again, apparently) operating outside the law.
Also, doesn’t this shit just waste like a fuckton of taxpayer money?
That’s the beautiful thing, we just print more so people don’t notice how much we actually spend on things. Inflation goes brr, but people blame the corpos.
By design. They want America bankrupt.
Just disguise yourself as your favorite Buck Rogers character.
