Gotta say, he lost me at the talent-skill thing. Being good at any arts requires something fundamental. Practise is absolutely an important part of it, but art, music, storytelling, anything creative, either you got it or you dont.
Edit : is the down arrows because talent isnt real, or because I said he and mistakenly did a misgendering?
I don’t think this is worth a downvote, but I do think you are fundamentally wrong.
either you got it or you don’t
People who are born with natural talents, that others can’t hope to match with practice, are definitely real, but they are VERY rare. Think people like Mozart or Picasso. People who just start out naturally understanding an art or skill in ways that others have to LEARN to achieve.
But “talent” for most people is more akin to “liking” a pursuit, rather than being naturally good at it. They GET good at it by DOING it constantly, because it’s what they like doing. In this context of “talent”, “talented” people can absolutely be matched by “untalented” people, who put in the same work and effort, but driven by other motivations. This is what people mean when they say “You can do anything you set your mind to.”
And yes, this includes creativity. Creativity is a skill that most creative people had to WORK on to get good at.
Skilled people are not born that way. You can be predisposed towards certain skills, and you can even argue that only some people can be the best at something, but all those can do is decrease the amount of time it takes to become skilled. No matter what, you can learn to do something. You can learn to draw. You can learn to write. You can learn to tell stories. You can learn to be creative. You can become skilled at most things. You may not be able to be the best, but practice will always get you closer to best than predisposition. You are literally not just born with it.
I don’t think this is worth a downvote, but I do think you are fundamentally wrong.
either you got it or you don’t
Please who are born with natural talents, that others can’t hope to match with practice, are definitely real, but they are VERY rare. Think people like Mozart or Picasso. People who just start out naturally understanding an art or skill in ways that others have to LEARN to achieve.
But “talent” for most people is more akin to “liking” a pursuit, rather than being naturally good at it. They GET good at it by DOING it constantly, because it’s what they like doing. In this context of “talent”, “talented” people can absolutely be matched by “untalented” people, who put in the same work and effort, but driven by other motivations. This is what people mean when they say “You can do anything you set your mind to.”
Some of the best artists I know are people who started out without a single iota of talent, but they practiced for long enough that they got good. I reckon that talent probably does exist, but it’s a far smaller component than many believe. Hard word beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.
People who are most likely to emphasise talent in art tend to be people who wish they were good at art, but aren’t willing (or able) to put the time into improving; it feels oddly reassuring to tell oneself that it’s pointless to try if you don’t start out with talent, rather than being realistic and saying “I wish I were good at art, but I am choosing not to invest in that skill because it’s not one of my priorities”
Maybe, but i feel the amount of effort I put in before giving up should have yielded a lot more results than it did. I dont want to come across as bitter, because its just art, but i really do think some people just cant.
If Mozart can be writing unrivalled symphonies at 8 years old you know. Most people will play a single instrument for longer than he was alive and come nowhere close, and its frustrating to learn that the general consensus is that this is simply because everyone else just needs to try harder.
don’t listen to others, “everyone can do X” is one of those technically true unfalsifiable statements people tell themselves to soothe their bad feelings about their own mediocrity.
you’re right that it isn’t just a matter of will or effort, some people are born into incorrigibly better positions to become the next Mozart or Einstein. the truth is that in this world the majority of your fate is not written by you and it never will be - and that’s okay.
maybe one day people will get off their weird “personal responsibility” high-horse, but until then…
That’s not the general consensus, you just need to stop comparing yourself to literal prodigies. In fact, stop comparing yourself to anyone. If you don’t have expectations for your art, you’ll never fail to meet them.
I wasn’t literally comparing myself, it wasnt “wahhh im not a subject-defining god what’s the point”, it was more “if an 8 year old child can be that good, then there has to be some factor beyond effort”
I think it’s more nuanced, like unless of a particular handicap pratice will make you good. But being exceptional requires something that is a closely guarded secret by the gods.
So yeah, like the succesful actor on a talk show talking about working hard to get at your dreams sorts of diminish the hard work of anyone who doesn’t reach the top.
So yeah, talent is honed but exceptional talent is not.
When I mentioned this in the last posting i was thoroughly downvoted, my downs were mostly artists adamant that anyone can be great at art if they just put in the effort. Many claimed to have full aphantasia and more or less tried to pin it on my inability to draw to work ethic or being too hard on my great art that I never presented to anyone.
I think it’s a general condition that most artists project their abilities and believe that anyone can do what they’re doing.
Like right there with FridaySteve@lemmy.world’s downvote on this comment, something that actually happened as was clearly reported to me in a previous post.
Gotta say, he lost me at the talent-skill thing. Being good at any arts requires something fundamental. Practise is absolutely an important part of it, but art, music, storytelling, anything creative, either you got it or you dont.
Edit : is the down arrows because talent isnt real, or because I said he and mistakenly did a misgendering?
I don’t think this is worth a downvote, but I do think you are fundamentally wrong.
People who are born with natural talents, that others can’t hope to match with practice, are definitely real, but they are VERY rare. Think people like Mozart or Picasso. People who just start out naturally understanding an art or skill in ways that others have to LEARN to achieve.
But “talent” for most people is more akin to “liking” a pursuit, rather than being naturally good at it. They GET good at it by DOING it constantly, because it’s what they like doing. In this context of “talent”, “talented” people can absolutely be matched by “untalented” people, who put in the same work and effort, but driven by other motivations. This is what people mean when they say “You can do anything you set your mind to.”
And yes, this includes creativity. Creativity is a skill that most creative people had to WORK on to get good at.
Skilled people are not born that way. You can be predisposed towards certain skills, and you can even argue that only some people can be the best at something, but all those can do is decrease the amount of time it takes to become skilled. No matter what, you can learn to do something. You can learn to draw. You can learn to write. You can learn to tell stories. You can learn to be creative. You can become skilled at most things. You may not be able to be the best, but practice will always get you closer to best than predisposition. You are literally not just born with it.
I don’t think this is worth a downvote, but I do think you are fundamentally wrong.
Please who are born with natural talents, that others can’t hope to match with practice, are definitely real, but they are VERY rare. Think people like Mozart or Picasso. People who just start out naturally understanding an art or skill in ways that others have to LEARN to achieve.
But “talent” for most people is more akin to “liking” a pursuit, rather than being naturally good at it. They GET good at it by DOING it constantly, because it’s what they like doing. In this context of “talent”, “talented” people can absolutely be matched by “untalented” people, who put in the same work and effort, but driven by other motivations. This is what people mean when they say “You can do anything you set your mind to.”
Some of the best artists I know are people who started out without a single iota of talent, but they practiced for long enough that they got good. I reckon that talent probably does exist, but it’s a far smaller component than many believe. Hard word beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.
People who are most likely to emphasise talent in art tend to be people who wish they were good at art, but aren’t willing (or able) to put the time into improving; it feels oddly reassuring to tell oneself that it’s pointless to try if you don’t start out with talent, rather than being realistic and saying “I wish I were good at art, but I am choosing not to invest in that skill because it’s not one of my priorities”
Maybe, but i feel the amount of effort I put in before giving up should have yielded a lot more results than it did. I dont want to come across as bitter, because its just art, but i really do think some people just cant.
If Mozart can be writing unrivalled symphonies at 8 years old you know. Most people will play a single instrument for longer than he was alive and come nowhere close, and its frustrating to learn that the general consensus is that this is simply because everyone else just needs to try harder.
don’t listen to others, “everyone can do X” is one of those technically true unfalsifiable statements people tell themselves to soothe their bad feelings about their own mediocrity.
you’re right that it isn’t just a matter of will or effort, some people are born into incorrigibly better positions to become the next Mozart or Einstein. the truth is that in this world the majority of your fate is not written by you and it never will be - and that’s okay.
maybe one day people will get off their weird “personal responsibility” high-horse, but until then…
That’s not the general consensus, you just need to stop comparing yourself to literal prodigies. In fact, stop comparing yourself to anyone. If you don’t have expectations for your art, you’ll never fail to meet them.
I wasn’t literally comparing myself, it wasnt “wahhh im not a subject-defining god what’s the point”, it was more “if an 8 year old child can be that good, then there has to be some factor beyond effort”
I think it’s more nuanced, like unless of a particular handicap pratice will make you good. But being exceptional requires something that is a closely guarded secret by the gods. So yeah, like the succesful actor on a talk show talking about working hard to get at your dreams sorts of diminish the hard work of anyone who doesn’t reach the top. So yeah, talent is honed but exceptional talent is not.
When I mentioned this in the last posting i was thoroughly downvoted, my downs were mostly artists adamant that anyone can be great at art if they just put in the effort. Many claimed to have full aphantasia and more or less tried to pin it on my inability to draw to work ethic or being too hard on my great art that I never presented to anyone.
I think it’s a general condition that most artists project their abilities and believe that anyone can do what they’re doing.
Like right there with FridaySteve@lemmy.world’s downvote on this comment, something that actually happened as was clearly reported to me in a previous post.
At least you’re not bitter about it 🙄🙄🙄