Wealth taxes are legitimately terrible. The only thing they will really hurt is the upper middle class. Most billionaires have their wealth tied up in unrealized gains for exactly this reason, to avoid taxes. Wealth taxes that target the upper middle class only really serve to reduce the class of the common people. It hurts people in high cost of living areas more.
A better system is,
Get rid of fiat currencies, and state currencies in general. Have metal coins with fixed weights. This will fix the economy and Improve it after an initial economic collapse as the bubbles pop. It will force the state to balance the budget and get rid of economic instability and Inflation so long as we export the same value as we import.
Create a public healthcare system to provide basic coverage alongside the private system. Don’t make it too expensive but provide basic care, and also pain treatment to people at the end of life. Subsidize competition in domestic drug markets to achieve low costs on drugs and use eminent domain to buy some patents.
With the hard currency you can have self funded unemployment insurance and pensions, and disability can be a separate program funded by income taxes.
Make business sales, and income tax the same, so if people vote to raise or lower taxes, it affects everyone equally. A better system would be to automatically generate the tax rate based on what voters vote for and get rid of state debt period. People have no right to be putting their children in debt to pay for their excessive lifestyles anyways.
Without fiat currencies, there wouldn’t really be billionaires in the first place. There would be plenty of rich people, just not 10,000x richer than the average person.
Unfortunately voters vote for terrible things, for the past 25+ years in America, voters have consistently voted for mass surveillance, expanding executive power, expanding the police state, adding more laws to the books, inflation, corporate loopholes, and unlimited private anonymous money to fund political campaigns. It really starts with the voters first. They will have to learn to stop voting for trash politicians.
Lots to unpack here and I’m not looking to tackle all of it, but going back to any metal standard is a terrible idea. The value of a Fiat currency is based on the shared belief in it’s value, whereas a metal standard currency has its value in the shared belief in the value of the metal. No gain, but pushing the problem one step down the chain.
The substantial downside of metal standard currency is that it causes a scarcity in the metal compared to the amount needed for currency, leading to deflation. Suddenly you have a currency which encourages people not to spend as the currency is expected to be worth more in the future; the currency fails at it’s only job: facilitating trade.
The value of metal isn’t arbitrary,bits valuable because the metal is actually valuable. You can use copper for electronics, silver for medical instruments, gold for all kinds of things from semiconductors to low impedance buses.
There is no deflation of metal currencies or inflation. This is a common lie of corporate sellsmen trying to sell everyone into their pyramid scheme. The value slowly drifts over time and it is possible for the value to change more significantly with the discovery of new sources or technology which makes extracting easier. The point is though that compared to fiat currencies, it’s extremely stable and over generations. This makes the currency truly valuable, something people can save and give to their grandkids and it will be roughly the same value. People can retire for example without ever needing to put their money at mercy to the rich in speculation markets.
What is actually happening is the economy is growing but it’s being spread across all the currency holders, not just sucked up by the state and the corporate class. The is what you call deflation, but it’s what I would call economic appreciation. Simply put prices have to meet workers halfway.
The only real downside compared to fiat currency, and this is really the only one in actuality, is that money is harder to obtain without producing something of real value. This means that governments can not spend money to stimulate the economy, and the economy cannot carry massive amounts of debts which cannot be realized effectively. Interest rates would be high because interests would have to cover the people who default.
This is not a bad thing, this is an honest economy. It would be hard to imagine a modern economy operating like this, because it’s so fueled by cheap debt and wasteful spending, and huge bureaucracies, but those things come at the expense of the worker, who has the least bargaining power of all. With a hard currency, whatever a worker wants is honest. It can’t be stolen from them. It can’t be taxed outside of income effectively without near extortion/Mafia level tax schemes.
The middle class would absolutely thrive under this system, because they would possess one of the most valuable things under a hard currency system, labor. Since a worker is paid wages, they cannot really be duped by people. Once that money is in their hands that value has passed to them.
This also fixes so many other issues, like economic bubbles, economic instabilities and recessions and depressions. It fixes the value of hard assets like land since people have to pay taxes on land if they own a lot, where workers should have property taxes, only businesses that deal in commercial selling of land, people can actually afford land.
It would cause all kinds of issues with the way the economy is currently set up. Massive mega corporations would be bankrupt nearly overnight. Since they aren’t actually producing much real value for their costs. The stock market would tank, requiring the state step in and subsidize basic necessities for a few years, maybe even a generation. People would make a run on the stock market to withdraw their retirements they foolishly gambled with, trying to beat inflation.
Yet at the end of it, you would be left with a healthy and functioning economy. A small upper class, a large middle class, and a mild class of poverty striken people.
This could be handled pretty well by giving back half of all tax revenues in the form of UBI equally to everyone and setting up public clinics instead of having the extremely expensive Medicare system. You could offer doctors an abolition of their taxes and UBI to work there for the more meager wages, to encourage lots of high quality and older doctors to work there after they have acquired some private wealth that they would like to protect more from taxation. The federal bank instead of giving loans to banks, could give loans to people to build small affordable house. People can get one per lifetime and have the payment garnished from their wages or UBI. That way you could stimulate the economy more in times and also help to keep house prices low, so that the average worker can actually aquire wealth and raise up in class over generations.
This is how an economy should be designed. Freemarket socialism, fair and level taxes, hard currencies, UBI instead of welfare, public funding of private education that is the students choice, publicly owned infrastructure, utilities, and a cost effective public healthcare system that provides basic care, access to cheap medicine, and pain management for end of life care if people are poor.
With UBI and the state helping everyone get an apartment without high taxation, the economy would both thrive and everyone would have some basic social security. People would not have to work if they lived a meager lifestyle and could eat and acquire basic necessities. This would also make the labor market honest. Nobody would choose to work unless the wages were mutually beneficial. Most people would be happy. Women could stay home and raise children without being stuck in poverty and an argument away from homelessness or virtual prostitution with people having free time to pursue other things besides work, culture would thrive, technology would thrive and people would be happy, and also the economy would thrive because we would produce the best works on the planet.
This starts with cutting the rich off the tit of the tax payer. Cutting the materialistic geriatrics off the tit of the working person. This starts with people rejecting Reganomics and embracing free market private socialism instead of stupid communism or stupid capitalism fueled by fiat and authoritarianism.
The value of metal isn’t arbitrary,bits valuable because the metal is actually valuable. You can use copper for electronics, silver for medical instruments, gold for all kinds of things from semiconductors to low impedance buses
Yeah, because necessary computer chips, medical instruments, and other electronics won’t become extremely expensive or scarce from being MADE OF MONEY!
There’s a finite amount of metal in the world and an ever-increasing demand for both things made of metal and currency. Combining the two would inevitably lead to a point in the far too near future where only very rich people can afford to use money and/or only rich people can afford to build anything out of the money metals.
There is no deflation of metal currencies or inflation
Except when there’s not enough of it in existence for both making the things of it AND for being all the money. Which is already the case.
This is a common lie of corporate sellsmen trying to sell everyone into their pyramid scheme
Maybe not the BEST thing to mention pyramid schemes while trying to convince people that inherently finite resources can cover several exponentially increasing needs in perpetuity…
The value slowly drifts over time
Until it’s suddenly currency again AND still needed for making important stuff with.
the discovery of new sources or technology which makes extracting easier
Which will STILL be much more expensive and require extra security once extraction equipment contains wiring and circuits made of literal money.
The point is though that compared to fiat currencies, it’s extremely stable and over generations
Which it has been because it’s been considered raw materials for production of goods for generations. That flies out the window the moment its value becomes intertwined with all levels and types of commerce
something people can save and give to their grandkids
If they’re EXTREMELY rich compared to most of the world’s population.
it will be roughly the same value.
No.
People can retire for example without ever needing to put their money at mercy to the rich in speculation markets.
Very few people, sure. Probably significantly fewer than now.
The is what you call deflation, but it’s what I would call economic appreciation
It’s what I call becoming richer by already being rich, which is basically the stock market but with less effort.
this is an honest economy
Overly simplified to the detriment of most people ≠ honest.
Simply put prices have to meet workers halfway.
Would be lovely, but the reality is that most workers would no longer be able to afford anything made of the money metals and would probably be underpaid even more than they already are since there’s actual scarcity added onto the artificial scarcity.
The only real downside compared to fiat currency, and this is really the only one in actuality
Nope. I’ve mentioned a few already at I bet you’re going to say something else in a bit
that money is harder to obtain without producing something of real value
Not if you already have it and it appreciates. Like the current system, but even moreso, it’ll be up to the ones who hoard the most riches to determine what has “real value”.
This means that governments can not spend money to stimulate the economy, and the economy cannot carry massive amounts of debts
Which would be awful. Without tools such as deficit spending and government debt, every recession could take years or decades, if not be permanently insurmountable since you can’t just create emergency metal.
Interest rates would be high because interests would have to cover the people who default.
Which would mean that only rich people would be able to afford to borrow money, further enhancing the “get richer by already being rich” effect
This is not a bad thing
As long as you are one of the lucky few already in possession of a lot of wealth in metals.
I could go on responding to all the rest of your fallacious arguments in turn, but if you haven’t gotten the point yet, let me just summarize it for you:
TL;DR: Going back to economies based on physical metal would be absolute weapons grade idiocy.
I’ll be honest I don’t feel like responding to every single one of these points. I think I summed it up pretty well in the last post even if you disagree. I’ll respond to one or two or a few, which I think covers most of your points.
Stuff being made of literal money - this isn’t really true because you can extract more of it and recycle it. It’s also not just one metal but many metals. The way it worked in history, is that gold was used for things like large transactions, and long term savings, where most people used silver as the everyday currency. Copper is also a good option, relatively valuable but also very fungible with the downside of oxidation which silver and gold doesn’t have at normal temperatures. You can also have iron, nickel, platinum, and other coins. One of the core ideas is that the state doesn’t issue currency directly, as they like all human beings are not responsible enough to have that kind of power as a monopoly, but they simply ensure fair use by making counterfeiting and fraud illegal. This is how much of human history handled money.
An economy without inflation or debts isn’t bad. It is bad for the rich, but not for the workers. It’s bad for the rich because mega corporations cannot compete with small businesses in a hard currency system. In the past things were worse because of technology. They didn’t have much of it. It’s a different era now.
Hard currency doesn’t appreciate just because you are rich. This happens in fiat currency systems. The reasons corporations snowball in wealth, is because they have access to low interest and no interest loans, and real valuable assets where workers do not have any access to any valuable asset to store wealth in. The most valuable asset a worker has that actually holds value is a home, and even this has lost about 30% of its value over the past 50 years, despite being higher quality. It also isn’t a long term store of wealth and has property taxation attached to it, which means the only people who can ever get wealthy in our society, are people who get past a threshold of about 20+ million a year currently. They then snowball towards being extremely wealthy just on compound interest and stock appreciation alone. For every 1% of people who get wealthy this way, 99% of people get poorer year after year, and with absolutely no control over this process, as is the entire design of fiat currencies.
Also to close, I would like to just say, that virtually every human who has ever lived in history would disagree with your fiat currency nonsense. It wasn’t until the age of mass media and compulsory education that governments and corporations could really force people into paper money and 401ks. It has been tried a few times in history, always by tyrants, and always has directly preceded the complete collapse of their society and culture.
This is because the most valuable actual thing on this earth is people, and if people are not treated with decency and paid fairly, then your society collapses. You cannot cheat people out of their wages. America as well has degenerated nonstop since it’s adoption of fiat currencies. Economic growth in real value has been stagnant since the 70s. Most of the fake stock market is IP and real estate bubbles and overpriced companies that will never recover the valuation that they have in real value, only through inflation. Fiat currencies have also created a situation where the old and adults in general sell away their children’s futures and force them into debt without their consent so they can live lives of opulence and excess without having to actually work for it. This scam has went on for so long that now nearly half of Americans cannot find a job or will not work for the terrible wages and our IQ is dropping, and less then a quarter of people even own property without debt. The ones who do mostly own a worn down old wooden house. This is what fiat currency creates. It is find mentally just greed and unfairness and irresponsibility and an attempt for a terrible and inefficient state and corporate class to cling on to power for another century until the people starve and finally overthrow them.
I know economics not reganomics. I don’t follow your political economics education. I deal in truth.
It’s easy enough to at least partially prove because the same people who teach you Reganomics also have a proven track record of making the economy worse over decades. There hasn’t been hardly any growth in 50 years. Easy to verify by calculating the true value of GDP in 1970 and now, by taking the price of commodities and valuing your GDP by that. These same people are the ones who teach this new age economic bullshit when just studying a little bit of history and using true values not fiat values, and you will see that every mistake the U.S has made since leaving the gold standard has lead to exactly the same results time and time again. It always leads to collapse, it always leads to wages rising slower then prices. That’s the whole point of a fiat currency, is to let extremely inefficient corporations that produce almost no value and have unmotivated underpaid workforces survive in a semi free market. This by the way destroys prices. The reason you can’t afford a house is because any real asset that holds value and is inflation proof sores through the roof faster than even combined inflation. This is because these banks and corporations which could never exist in a honest and free economy have unlimited leverage from low interest loans and tax deductible debt, so they never have to give assets back to the working people except under extremely exploitative terms.
Your entire economy is a mess, and the people running it don’t have a clue how economics works, including your economics professors at these corporate funded universities who just spread nonsense to protect corporate profits and keep everyone in a virtual hostage situation where their retirement can get wiped out in microseconds on the stock market. It’s a bunch of bullshit and I’m really sick of people who literally don’t have a single clue what they are talking about, trying to explain economics to me, when I studied this for years on my own so I could figure out what is really going on and what really works, and surprise the entire economy is a giant scam. The biggest scam in history. Fiat currency is literally the biggest racket in history.
there’s no such thing as true value. when they tied the value of currency did they use a method besides fiat?
also, please get information about economics from people who understand it (not the internet). you seem not to be able to discern a reliable source in this field.
Lol like I said I study economics not reganomics. You can’t find any YouTube videos that are not reganomics. YouTube had all of that purged during the great censorship wave before they put trump into power. I know you live in the soviet union basically so you never heard anything that was true in your life probably. The internet is just not a good source in these things anymore. I’m pretty sure it’s like half bots.
There is such a thing as true value in many ways, and you have it backward. You don’t measure the value of hard currencies by fiat, you measure the value of items by hard currency. A loaf of bread is worth however much copper someone will pay for it. A copper isn’t worth x amount of bread. The price of bread may change because of various things, but the price of the copper will always remain fairly constant, outside of improvements in technology and stuff. This is sort of buffered by the fact that if the value of something useful like copper drops then the market will use it for more things, since it just has so many useful properties. Copper is actually a better conductor than gold and silver. If the price of copper rises, the market may try to phase it out of certain things.
.it’s also just that copper is already very valuable so the extraction of it is already very optimized. There probably isn’t too many big improvements to be made in extracting it but as the price changes, certain processing of it may become more or less feasible.
This is sort of the reason things like oil keep its value over time. It’s when oil prices go up, it suddenly becomes profitable to open up old fields which produce lower quality oil which requires more expensive processing, and as the market is flooded those same fields become unprofitable. It sort of self regulates.
Also you should do easily anyways, you should have your fortune divided into several pools of different metals, and also land, and maybe a bit of stock in a joint enterprise. You should probably spend some on collectibles, and also some on yourself. As in educating yourself.
Mainstream MMT is a bunch of junk created to screw over the working class and to give corporations tons of power by controlling everything that is valuable. It creates so many negatives. High asset prices, even relative to true inflation, because people have to overly expose themselves to assets to store value if they aren’t rich and can’t snowball. It creates debt based economies, where many companies don’t even pay taxes because they operate on debt besides the many other tax loopholes that become necessary to keep this duct tape economy going. The people have to pay high taxes or inflation goes up too fast since they have to find a way to suck liquidity out of the economy as they also somehow have to keep injecting it. That’s why the average American pays dozens or hundreds of taxes. It destroys the principle of free markets, because once companies get into the range of tens of millions. They never really have to worry about going out of business as long as they sell something. This makes asset prices even higher and destroys small businesses. It locks out the working class from starting businesses without tons of investment from managers and puppeters. It requires that people not be given even a basic education, so that they don’t know how screwed they are which leads to all kinds of issues, like companies not knowing how to actually be successful long term. It punishes efficient companies which are in debt, because they become more exposed to risk, where shitty companies can just sell all their assets to a rich friend, or a shell llc, and file for bankruptcy. It requires that the state is always corrupt, because any sort of tweaking of the system will cause the economy to collapse. It requires that Americans put their retirement into a casino or there will be too much asset inflation this requires governments occasionally steal everyone gold with literal armies going door to door, as well as getting tons of propaganda about how saving money is bad and gambling with your retirement is actually good, when you can just buy gold and beat the stock market every year. It also destroys class, since there is virtually no reward for being honest, saving money, giving something to your kids. Fiat economics hates class, in particular the middle class, fiat currency thrives on a class of aristocrats and a giant underclass of uneducated poorly fed and disarmed fools. There will hardly ever be more then 3 generations of high wealth within one family or even basic land ownership, Inca fiat economy. This destroys our DNA. Our creativity, our intelligence, our looks, our more human features like our empathy and restraint. In short, fiat currency raises and entire population of fat bald ugly and disrespectful people, because this is the evolutionary pressure that fiat currencies create. There are many other reasons beyond this. Like just the fact that for some strange reason, under a fiat system, you will almost always earn less the next day then the day before with a job. Almost every single job in America pays you the most in real value, the first day you show up, it’s so ironic. The government also lies about inflation btw. It’s really around 7% per year on average. So if you are not making 7% more every year then you are being paid less. If your house doesn’t appreciate in 7% of fiat per year, then your house is becoming less valuable. If your retirement isn’t growing 7% a year, then you should of just bought gold, and when you add in the risk, it’s higher then 7% per year for your retirement, because every so often, seem to be about once a decade these days, the rich will decide to just crash the market and take half of your retirement. So really you need to be making about 12.5% per year on your retirement or you are actually just losing money.
Wealth taxes are legitimately terrible. The only thing they will really hurt is the upper middle class. Most billionaires have their wealth tied up in unrealized gains for exactly this reason, to avoid taxes. Wealth taxes that target the upper middle class only really serve to reduce the class of the common people. It hurts people in high cost of living areas more.
A better system is,
Get rid of fiat currencies, and state currencies in general. Have metal coins with fixed weights. This will fix the economy and Improve it after an initial economic collapse as the bubbles pop. It will force the state to balance the budget and get rid of economic instability and Inflation so long as we export the same value as we import.
Create a public healthcare system to provide basic coverage alongside the private system. Don’t make it too expensive but provide basic care, and also pain treatment to people at the end of life. Subsidize competition in domestic drug markets to achieve low costs on drugs and use eminent domain to buy some patents.
With the hard currency you can have self funded unemployment insurance and pensions, and disability can be a separate program funded by income taxes.
Make business sales, and income tax the same, so if people vote to raise or lower taxes, it affects everyone equally. A better system would be to automatically generate the tax rate based on what voters vote for and get rid of state debt period. People have no right to be putting their children in debt to pay for their excessive lifestyles anyways.
Without fiat currencies, there wouldn’t really be billionaires in the first place. There would be plenty of rich people, just not 10,000x richer than the average person.
Unfortunately voters vote for terrible things, for the past 25+ years in America, voters have consistently voted for mass surveillance, expanding executive power, expanding the police state, adding more laws to the books, inflation, corporate loopholes, and unlimited private anonymous money to fund political campaigns. It really starts with the voters first. They will have to learn to stop voting for trash politicians.
tldr but unrealised gains is still wealth. It’s up to the tax law to define that.
the reason they don’t consider unrealized gains is that they don’t want to pay refunds to people who buy losses.
Lots to unpack here and I’m not looking to tackle all of it, but going back to any metal standard is a terrible idea. The value of a Fiat currency is based on the shared belief in it’s value, whereas a metal standard currency has its value in the shared belief in the value of the metal. No gain, but pushing the problem one step down the chain.
The substantial downside of metal standard currency is that it causes a scarcity in the metal compared to the amount needed for currency, leading to deflation. Suddenly you have a currency which encourages people not to spend as the currency is expected to be worth more in the future; the currency fails at it’s only job: facilitating trade.
The value of metal isn’t arbitrary,bits valuable because the metal is actually valuable. You can use copper for electronics, silver for medical instruments, gold for all kinds of things from semiconductors to low impedance buses.
There is no deflation of metal currencies or inflation. This is a common lie of corporate sellsmen trying to sell everyone into their pyramid scheme. The value slowly drifts over time and it is possible for the value to change more significantly with the discovery of new sources or technology which makes extracting easier. The point is though that compared to fiat currencies, it’s extremely stable and over generations. This makes the currency truly valuable, something people can save and give to their grandkids and it will be roughly the same value. People can retire for example without ever needing to put their money at mercy to the rich in speculation markets.
What is actually happening is the economy is growing but it’s being spread across all the currency holders, not just sucked up by the state and the corporate class. The is what you call deflation, but it’s what I would call economic appreciation. Simply put prices have to meet workers halfway.
The only real downside compared to fiat currency, and this is really the only one in actuality, is that money is harder to obtain without producing something of real value. This means that governments can not spend money to stimulate the economy, and the economy cannot carry massive amounts of debts which cannot be realized effectively. Interest rates would be high because interests would have to cover the people who default.
This is not a bad thing, this is an honest economy. It would be hard to imagine a modern economy operating like this, because it’s so fueled by cheap debt and wasteful spending, and huge bureaucracies, but those things come at the expense of the worker, who has the least bargaining power of all. With a hard currency, whatever a worker wants is honest. It can’t be stolen from them. It can’t be taxed outside of income effectively without near extortion/Mafia level tax schemes.
The middle class would absolutely thrive under this system, because they would possess one of the most valuable things under a hard currency system, labor. Since a worker is paid wages, they cannot really be duped by people. Once that money is in their hands that value has passed to them.
This also fixes so many other issues, like economic bubbles, economic instabilities and recessions and depressions. It fixes the value of hard assets like land since people have to pay taxes on land if they own a lot, where workers should have property taxes, only businesses that deal in commercial selling of land, people can actually afford land.
It would cause all kinds of issues with the way the economy is currently set up. Massive mega corporations would be bankrupt nearly overnight. Since they aren’t actually producing much real value for their costs. The stock market would tank, requiring the state step in and subsidize basic necessities for a few years, maybe even a generation. People would make a run on the stock market to withdraw their retirements they foolishly gambled with, trying to beat inflation.
Yet at the end of it, you would be left with a healthy and functioning economy. A small upper class, a large middle class, and a mild class of poverty striken people.
This could be handled pretty well by giving back half of all tax revenues in the form of UBI equally to everyone and setting up public clinics instead of having the extremely expensive Medicare system. You could offer doctors an abolition of their taxes and UBI to work there for the more meager wages, to encourage lots of high quality and older doctors to work there after they have acquired some private wealth that they would like to protect more from taxation. The federal bank instead of giving loans to banks, could give loans to people to build small affordable house. People can get one per lifetime and have the payment garnished from their wages or UBI. That way you could stimulate the economy more in times and also help to keep house prices low, so that the average worker can actually aquire wealth and raise up in class over generations.
This is how an economy should be designed. Freemarket socialism, fair and level taxes, hard currencies, UBI instead of welfare, public funding of private education that is the students choice, publicly owned infrastructure, utilities, and a cost effective public healthcare system that provides basic care, access to cheap medicine, and pain management for end of life care if people are poor.
With UBI and the state helping everyone get an apartment without high taxation, the economy would both thrive and everyone would have some basic social security. People would not have to work if they lived a meager lifestyle and could eat and acquire basic necessities. This would also make the labor market honest. Nobody would choose to work unless the wages were mutually beneficial. Most people would be happy. Women could stay home and raise children without being stuck in poverty and an argument away from homelessness or virtual prostitution with people having free time to pursue other things besides work, culture would thrive, technology would thrive and people would be happy, and also the economy would thrive because we would produce the best works on the planet.
This starts with cutting the rich off the tit of the tax payer. Cutting the materialistic geriatrics off the tit of the working person. This starts with people rejecting Reganomics and embracing free market private socialism instead of stupid communism or stupid capitalism fueled by fiat and authoritarianism.
Yeah, because necessary computer chips, medical instruments, and other electronics won’t become extremely expensive or scarce from being MADE OF MONEY!
There’s a finite amount of metal in the world and an ever-increasing demand for both things made of metal and currency. Combining the two would inevitably lead to a point in the far too near future where only very rich people can afford to use money and/or only rich people can afford to build anything out of the money metals.
Except when there’s not enough of it in existence for both making the things of it AND for being all the money. Which is already the case.
Maybe not the BEST thing to mention pyramid schemes while trying to convince people that inherently finite resources can cover several exponentially increasing needs in perpetuity…
Until it’s suddenly currency again AND still needed for making important stuff with.
Which will STILL be much more expensive and require extra security once extraction equipment contains wiring and circuits made of literal money.
Which it has been because it’s been considered raw materials for production of goods for generations. That flies out the window the moment its value becomes intertwined with all levels and types of commerce
If they’re EXTREMELY rich compared to most of the world’s population.
No.
Very few people, sure. Probably significantly fewer than now.
It’s what I call becoming richer by already being rich, which is basically the stock market but with less effort.
Overly simplified to the detriment of most people ≠ honest.
Would be lovely, but the reality is that most workers would no longer be able to afford anything made of the money metals and would probably be underpaid even more than they already are since there’s actual scarcity added onto the artificial scarcity.
Nope. I’ve mentioned a few already at I bet you’re going to say something else in a bit
Not if you already have it and it appreciates. Like the current system, but even moreso, it’ll be up to the ones who hoard the most riches to determine what has “real value”.
Which would be awful. Without tools such as deficit spending and government debt, every recession could take years or decades, if not be permanently insurmountable since you can’t just create emergency metal.
Which would mean that only rich people would be able to afford to borrow money, further enhancing the “get richer by already being rich” effect
As long as you are one of the lucky few already in possession of a lot of wealth in metals.
I could go on responding to all the rest of your fallacious arguments in turn, but if you haven’t gotten the point yet, let me just summarize it for you:
TL;DR: Going back to economies based on physical metal would be absolute weapons grade idiocy.
I’ll be honest I don’t feel like responding to every single one of these points. I think I summed it up pretty well in the last post even if you disagree. I’ll respond to one or two or a few, which I think covers most of your points.
Stuff being made of literal money - this isn’t really true because you can extract more of it and recycle it. It’s also not just one metal but many metals. The way it worked in history, is that gold was used for things like large transactions, and long term savings, where most people used silver as the everyday currency. Copper is also a good option, relatively valuable but also very fungible with the downside of oxidation which silver and gold doesn’t have at normal temperatures. You can also have iron, nickel, platinum, and other coins. One of the core ideas is that the state doesn’t issue currency directly, as they like all human beings are not responsible enough to have that kind of power as a monopoly, but they simply ensure fair use by making counterfeiting and fraud illegal. This is how much of human history handled money.
An economy without inflation or debts isn’t bad. It is bad for the rich, but not for the workers. It’s bad for the rich because mega corporations cannot compete with small businesses in a hard currency system. In the past things were worse because of technology. They didn’t have much of it. It’s a different era now.
Hard currency doesn’t appreciate just because you are rich. This happens in fiat currency systems. The reasons corporations snowball in wealth, is because they have access to low interest and no interest loans, and real valuable assets where workers do not have any access to any valuable asset to store wealth in. The most valuable asset a worker has that actually holds value is a home, and even this has lost about 30% of its value over the past 50 years, despite being higher quality. It also isn’t a long term store of wealth and has property taxation attached to it, which means the only people who can ever get wealthy in our society, are people who get past a threshold of about 20+ million a year currently. They then snowball towards being extremely wealthy just on compound interest and stock appreciation alone. For every 1% of people who get wealthy this way, 99% of people get poorer year after year, and with absolutely no control over this process, as is the entire design of fiat currencies.
Also to close, I would like to just say, that virtually every human who has ever lived in history would disagree with your fiat currency nonsense. It wasn’t until the age of mass media and compulsory education that governments and corporations could really force people into paper money and 401ks. It has been tried a few times in history, always by tyrants, and always has directly preceded the complete collapse of their society and culture.
This is because the most valuable actual thing on this earth is people, and if people are not treated with decency and paid fairly, then your society collapses. You cannot cheat people out of their wages. America as well has degenerated nonstop since it’s adoption of fiat currencies. Economic growth in real value has been stagnant since the 70s. Most of the fake stock market is IP and real estate bubbles and overpriced companies that will never recover the valuation that they have in real value, only through inflation. Fiat currencies have also created a situation where the old and adults in general sell away their children’s futures and force them into debt without their consent so they can live lives of opulence and excess without having to actually work for it. This scam has went on for so long that now nearly half of Americans cannot find a job or will not work for the terrible wages and our IQ is dropping, and less then a quarter of people even own property without debt. The ones who do mostly own a worn down old wooden house. This is what fiat currency creates. It is find mentally just greed and unfairness and irresponsibility and an attempt for a terrible and inefficient state and corporate class to cling on to power for another century until the people starve and finally overthrow them.
tell me you don’t understand economics without telling me you don’t understand economics
I know economics not reganomics. I don’t follow your political economics education. I deal in truth.
It’s easy enough to at least partially prove because the same people who teach you Reganomics also have a proven track record of making the economy worse over decades. There hasn’t been hardly any growth in 50 years. Easy to verify by calculating the true value of GDP in 1970 and now, by taking the price of commodities and valuing your GDP by that. These same people are the ones who teach this new age economic bullshit when just studying a little bit of history and using true values not fiat values, and you will see that every mistake the U.S has made since leaving the gold standard has lead to exactly the same results time and time again. It always leads to collapse, it always leads to wages rising slower then prices. That’s the whole point of a fiat currency, is to let extremely inefficient corporations that produce almost no value and have unmotivated underpaid workforces survive in a semi free market. This by the way destroys prices. The reason you can’t afford a house is because any real asset that holds value and is inflation proof sores through the roof faster than even combined inflation. This is because these banks and corporations which could never exist in a honest and free economy have unlimited leverage from low interest loans and tax deductible debt, so they never have to give assets back to the working people except under extremely exploitative terms.
Your entire economy is a mess, and the people running it don’t have a clue how economics works, including your economics professors at these corporate funded universities who just spread nonsense to protect corporate profits and keep everyone in a virtual hostage situation where their retirement can get wiped out in microseconds on the stock market. It’s a bunch of bullshit and I’m really sick of people who literally don’t have a single clue what they are talking about, trying to explain economics to me, when I studied this for years on my own so I could figure out what is really going on and what really works, and surprise the entire economy is a giant scam. The biggest scam in history. Fiat currency is literally the biggest racket in history.
there’s no such thing as true value. when they tied the value of currency did they use a method besides fiat?
also, please get information about economics from people who understand it (not the internet). you seem not to be able to discern a reliable source in this field.
Lol like I said I study economics not reganomics. You can’t find any YouTube videos that are not reganomics. YouTube had all of that purged during the great censorship wave before they put trump into power. I know you live in the soviet union basically so you never heard anything that was true in your life probably. The internet is just not a good source in these things anymore. I’m pretty sure it’s like half bots.
There is such a thing as true value in many ways, and you have it backward. You don’t measure the value of hard currencies by fiat, you measure the value of items by hard currency. A loaf of bread is worth however much copper someone will pay for it. A copper isn’t worth x amount of bread. The price of bread may change because of various things, but the price of the copper will always remain fairly constant, outside of improvements in technology and stuff. This is sort of buffered by the fact that if the value of something useful like copper drops then the market will use it for more things, since it just has so many useful properties. Copper is actually a better conductor than gold and silver. If the price of copper rises, the market may try to phase it out of certain things. .it’s also just that copper is already very valuable so the extraction of it is already very optimized. There probably isn’t too many big improvements to be made in extracting it but as the price changes, certain processing of it may become more or less feasible.
This is sort of the reason things like oil keep its value over time. It’s when oil prices go up, it suddenly becomes profitable to open up old fields which produce lower quality oil which requires more expensive processing, and as the market is flooded those same fields become unprofitable. It sort of self regulates.
Also you should do easily anyways, you should have your fortune divided into several pools of different metals, and also land, and maybe a bit of stock in a joint enterprise. You should probably spend some on collectibles, and also some on yourself. As in educating yourself.
Mainstream MMT is a bunch of junk created to screw over the working class and to give corporations tons of power by controlling everything that is valuable. It creates so many negatives. High asset prices, even relative to true inflation, because people have to overly expose themselves to assets to store value if they aren’t rich and can’t snowball. It creates debt based economies, where many companies don’t even pay taxes because they operate on debt besides the many other tax loopholes that become necessary to keep this duct tape economy going. The people have to pay high taxes or inflation goes up too fast since they have to find a way to suck liquidity out of the economy as they also somehow have to keep injecting it. That’s why the average American pays dozens or hundreds of taxes. It destroys the principle of free markets, because once companies get into the range of tens of millions. They never really have to worry about going out of business as long as they sell something. This makes asset prices even higher and destroys small businesses. It locks out the working class from starting businesses without tons of investment from managers and puppeters. It requires that people not be given even a basic education, so that they don’t know how screwed they are which leads to all kinds of issues, like companies not knowing how to actually be successful long term. It punishes efficient companies which are in debt, because they become more exposed to risk, where shitty companies can just sell all their assets to a rich friend, or a shell llc, and file for bankruptcy. It requires that the state is always corrupt, because any sort of tweaking of the system will cause the economy to collapse. It requires that Americans put their retirement into a casino or there will be too much asset inflation this requires governments occasionally steal everyone gold with literal armies going door to door, as well as getting tons of propaganda about how saving money is bad and gambling with your retirement is actually good, when you can just buy gold and beat the stock market every year. It also destroys class, since there is virtually no reward for being honest, saving money, giving something to your kids. Fiat economics hates class, in particular the middle class, fiat currency thrives on a class of aristocrats and a giant underclass of uneducated poorly fed and disarmed fools. There will hardly ever be more then 3 generations of high wealth within one family or even basic land ownership, Inca fiat economy. This destroys our DNA. Our creativity, our intelligence, our looks, our more human features like our empathy and restraint. In short, fiat currency raises and entire population of fat bald ugly and disrespectful people, because this is the evolutionary pressure that fiat currencies create. There are many other reasons beyond this. Like just the fact that for some strange reason, under a fiat system, you will almost always earn less the next day then the day before with a job. Almost every single job in America pays you the most in real value, the first day you show up, it’s so ironic. The government also lies about inflation btw. It’s really around 7% per year on average. So if you are not making 7% more every year then you are being paid less. If your house doesn’t appreciate in 7% of fiat per year, then your house is becoming less valuable. If your retirement isn’t growing 7% a year, then you should of just bought gold, and when you add in the risk, it’s higher then 7% per year for your retirement, because every so often, seem to be about once a decade these days, the rich will decide to just crash the market and take half of your retirement. So really you need to be making about 12.5% per year on your retirement or you are actually just losing money.
I’m not reading a nonsensical screed on economic anything from someone who has demonstrated they don’t understand basic economics unless I’m paid