I feel that’s pretty concerning that the plurality says it’s not committing genocide and another 1/3 is unsure. It doesn’t seem that article identified independents or swing-voters. One calculus Biden admin must make is: since the majority of those who claim Israel is committing genocide are Democrats, are said voters really going to stand by and not vote for Biden and let the guy who is objectively worse and will most certainly not just indirectly but directly engage in genocide? Considering these are the better educated voters, I’d hope not and Biden strategists may call their bluff. At least that’s what I’d be discussing on the oval office meeting for reelection.
Ultimately the public needs informed of the atrocities of Israel and Biden should probably try to distinguish Netanyahu’s far-right administration and overstep in response to October 7th from support of Israeli citizens themselves. That’s the needle that needs threaded.
I feel that’s pretty concerning that the plurality says it’s not committing genocide and another 1/3 is unsure.
2/3rds of people in the US think Israel is either committing genocide or they are unwilling to say Israel is definitively NOT committing genocide (which, if you didn’t care or thought what they were doing was fine you wouldn’t say you were undecided on whether Israel is committing genocide, people don’t just throw that word around lightly).
There are very few issues in the US that are a safer bet and besides Netanyahu is quite openly signaling that he hopes Trump wins the election, and yet Biden keeps trying to sidle up to this guy like he is his ally. It isn’t just ethically wrong, it is an incredible unforced political blunder.
edit y’all wanna still argue that Biden is making a good choice here? Biden is stuck in the past and the US populous is screaming for Biden to stop directly enabling genocide. Biden is heading for disaster by being so incredibly out of touch on this issue, and I am really fucking tired of people saying “oh well, when we examine this much later then we will have a serious discussion about it” which is conveniently having the discussion after every single damn Palestinian is either killed or displaced from their homes in Gaza.
I’m not sure those numbers are as rosy for your argument as you’d think. You’re not considering the possibility of someone that does think it’s genocide and wholy approves of it. Which does exist, the “glass em all” types like my father.
I’m pretty sure it all balances out, because other polls are showing it’s still Israel with the popularity advantage even with the downturn.
It’s especially telling that desire to pressure the Palestinians to compromise is dropping faster than the increase to pressure Israel: it’s either people just becoming wishy washy or intentionally wanting the conflict to continue until Israel wipes them out. (Kinda wish Gallup didn’t nix the differentiation between those options tbh).
2/3rds of people in the US think Israel is either NOT committing genocide or they are unwilling to say Israel definitely IS committing genocide (which, if you didn’t care or thought what they were doing wasn’t fine you wouldn’t say you were undecided on whether Israel isn’t committing genocide, people don’t just throw that word around lightly).
For instance, perhaps there are those waiting for the ICC’s verdict.
The only thing that really matters —for aforementioned unaddressed reasons pertaining to the predominantly Democratic voters believing it is genocide — is what swing-voters believe; and if they are undecided or believe Israel is not committing genocide, then they will be the most susceptible to the right-wing propaganda machine that is going to ramp up in the coming months. Biden advisors will clearly wait to see where they fall before fully committing to either side.
And ultimately: Does anyone here actually believe Biden wants to be associated with Genocide? Is he a homicidal maniac happy to see Palestinians suffer? I don’t get that impression.
And If it were that cut-and-dry, why wouldn’t he just abandon Netanyahu entirely?
So it begs the question: what do we as armchair lemmy geniuses believe we know better than the consensus of his advisors and strategists with far more experience and precision survey data than we have?
For instance, perhaps there are those waiting for the ICC’s verdict.
News flash, we won’t here that verdict until way wayyyyy wayyyyyyyyy after the genocide has already happened and the ruling is simply a matter of getting the history of mass murder right, not a matter of stopping mass murder.
And ultimately: Does anyone here actually believe Biden wants to be associated with Genocide? Is he a homicidal maniac happy to see Palestinians suffer? I don’t get that impression.
Actually there is a lot of indicators that a lot of Biden’s cabinet vehemently disagree with Biden’s policy on the Palestinian genocide, Biden doesn’t want to be associated with genocide but at this point the only reasonable conclusion is that Biden is ideologically committed to Israel in a way that blinds him to empathizing with the Palestinian genocide.
This might be one of Biden’s few ideological positions (as opposed to just calculating the middle and taking that position which a politician like him normally does).
but at this point the only reasonable conclusion is that Biden is ideologically committed to Israel in a way that blinds him to empathizing with the Palestinian genocide.
I think I gave another very reasonable logical conclusion that went completely unaddressed, did I not?
I mean, easily 4/5 of my comment went just completely ignored.
The only thing that really matters —for aforementioned unaddressed reasons pertaining to the predominantly Democratic voters believing it is genocide — is what swing-voters believe; and if they are undecided or believe Israel is not committing genocide, then they will be the most susceptible to the right-wing propaganda machine that is going to ramp up in the coming months.
Again this is just accepting the rightwing framing that Biden has to tack right to be popular and it is a notion that isn’t supported by evidence in many cases even though it is the prevailing wisdom.
Republicans are going to think Biden is doing a shit job no matter what he does. It’s like trying to make friends with Mitch McConnell and expecting to be able to mediate his positions by appealing to a desire for compromise. It doesn’t work, it just cedes the entire rhetorical conversation to conservatives while trying to appeal to a subset of people who are least likely to be meaningfully swayed.
For the rest of us, we want the genocide to stop now not for Biden to write Netanyahu a strongly worded letter.
Well, judging by the fact that Biden was paid over 5 million dollars by the pro Israel lobby since 1990, and the fact that he’s bending over backwards to facilitate a genocide as we speak, I’d say he’s more than happy to watch the poors get mutilated by an American colony.
^ For bystanders reading: Nudding in another thread somehow managed to blame Biden for the reversal of Roe and that he should magically snap his fingers and override the Supreme Court of the United states… Or something. Anyway, Republicans thank them for their service. Surely Trump will do better, amirite?
Beware of people like this; for nuance isn’t their forte.
I feel that’s pretty concerning that the plurality says it’s not committing genocide and another 1/3 is unsure. It doesn’t seem that article identified independents or swing-voters. One calculus Biden admin must make is: since the majority of those who claim Israel is committing genocide are Democrats, are said voters really going to stand by and not vote for Biden and let the guy who is objectively worse and will most certainly not just indirectly but directly engage in genocide? Considering these are the better educated voters, I’d hope not and Biden strategists may call their bluff. At least that’s what I’d be discussing on the oval office meeting for reelection.
Ultimately the public needs informed of the atrocities of Israel and Biden should probably try to distinguish Netanyahu’s far-right administration and overstep in response to October 7th from support of Israeli citizens themselves. That’s the needle that needs threaded.
2/3rds of people in the US think Israel is either committing genocide or they are unwilling to say Israel is definitively NOT committing genocide (which, if you didn’t care or thought what they were doing was fine you wouldn’t say you were undecided on whether Israel is committing genocide, people don’t just throw that word around lightly).
There are very few issues in the US that are a safer bet and besides Netanyahu is quite openly signaling that he hopes Trump wins the election, and yet Biden keeps trying to sidle up to this guy like he is his ally. It isn’t just ethically wrong, it is an incredible unforced political blunder.
edit y’all wanna still argue that Biden is making a good choice here? Biden is stuck in the past and the US populous is screaming for Biden to stop directly enabling genocide. Biden is heading for disaster by being so incredibly out of touch on this issue, and I am really fucking tired of people saying “oh well, when we examine this much later then we will have a serious discussion about it” which is conveniently having the discussion after every single damn Palestinian is either killed or displaced from their homes in Gaza.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
I’m not sure those numbers are as rosy for your argument as you’d think. You’re not considering the possibility of someone that does think it’s genocide and wholy approves of it. Which does exist, the “glass em all” types like my father.
I’m pretty sure it all balances out, because other polls are showing it’s still Israel with the popularity advantage even with the downturn.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx
It’s especially telling that desire to pressure the Palestinians to compromise is dropping faster than the increase to pressure Israel: it’s either people just becoming wishy washy or intentionally wanting the conflict to continue until Israel wipes them out. (Kinda wish Gallup didn’t nix the differentiation between those options tbh).
How is it not 2 sides of the same coin:
2/3rds of people in the US think Israel is either NOT committing genocide or they are unwilling to say Israel definitely IS committing genocide (which, if you didn’t care or thought what they were doing wasn’t fine you wouldn’t say you were undecided on whether Israel isn’t committing genocide, people don’t just throw that word around lightly).
For instance, perhaps there are those waiting for the ICC’s verdict.
The only thing that really matters —for aforementioned unaddressed reasons pertaining to the predominantly Democratic voters believing it is genocide — is what swing-voters believe; and if they are undecided or believe Israel is not committing genocide, then they will be the most susceptible to the right-wing propaganda machine that is going to ramp up in the coming months. Biden advisors will clearly wait to see where they fall before fully committing to either side.
And ultimately: Does anyone here actually believe Biden wants to be associated with Genocide? Is he a homicidal maniac happy to see Palestinians suffer? I don’t get that impression.
And If it were that cut-and-dry, why wouldn’t he just abandon Netanyahu entirely?
So it begs the question: what do we as armchair lemmy geniuses believe we know better than the consensus of his advisors and strategists with far more experience and precision survey data than we have?
News flash, we won’t here that verdict until way wayyyyy wayyyyyyyyy after the genocide has already happened and the ruling is simply a matter of getting the history of mass murder right, not a matter of stopping mass murder.
I mean I’m not those people but it doesn’t change my point.
Actually there is a lot of indicators that a lot of Biden’s cabinet vehemently disagree with Biden’s policy on the Palestinian genocide, Biden doesn’t want to be associated with genocide but at this point the only reasonable conclusion is that Biden is ideologically committed to Israel in a way that blinds him to empathizing with the Palestinian genocide.
This might be one of Biden’s few ideological positions (as opposed to just calculating the middle and taking that position which a politician like him normally does).
I think I gave another very reasonable logical conclusion that went completely unaddressed, did I not?
I mean, easily 4/5 of my comment went just completely ignored.
What this part?
Again this is just accepting the rightwing framing that Biden has to tack right to be popular and it is a notion that isn’t supported by evidence in many cases even though it is the prevailing wisdom.
Republicans are going to think Biden is doing a shit job no matter what he does. It’s like trying to make friends with Mitch McConnell and expecting to be able to mediate his positions by appealing to a desire for compromise. It doesn’t work, it just cedes the entire rhetorical conversation to conservatives while trying to appeal to a subset of people who are least likely to be meaningfully swayed.
For the rest of us, we want the genocide to stop now not for Biden to write Netanyahu a strongly worded letter.
Well, judging by the fact that Biden was paid over 5 million dollars by the pro Israel lobby since 1990, and the fact that he’s bending over backwards to facilitate a genocide as we speak, I’d say he’s more than happy to watch the poors get mutilated by an American colony.
^ For bystanders reading: Nudding in another thread somehow managed to blame Biden for the reversal of Roe and that he should magically snap his fingers and override the Supreme Court of the United states… Or something. Anyway, Republicans thank them for their service. Surely Trump will do better, amirite?
Beware of people like this; for nuance isn’t their forte.
Notice how this person didn’t address my comment or even acknowledge its content.
I don’t waste time with bad faith actors. You lost your ethos previously. See ya.
The neoliberals here are totally fine with genocide as long as it’s Biden doing it, and not trump.