Surprise!!

  • prole@sh.itjust.works
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    9 months ago

    In what warped reality is the President of the United States not “an officer of the US”? The amendment was literally made for this exact situation.

    It makes less than zero sense that the drafters and ratifiers of the amendment meant to leave the highest office in the nation out of the purview of the amendment. Absolute horseshit.

    Pretty disappointing to see the comments from some of the more liberal justices…

    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      It sounds to me like they are going to weasel out of it by saying the Colorado Supreme Court doesn’t have the authority to make that decision for everyone.

      Which they didn’t.

      The Colorado Supreme Court ruled that Trump is disqualified and cannot appear on the Colorado ballots. The Colorado Supreme Court does have that authority, because the Colorado state legislature gave it to them and nothing in federal law says they don’t. Colorado had previously disqualified another candidate, and the judge who determined they could was Neil Gorsuch.

      There is no question as to whether the President is an officer of the United States. There is no question as to whether his oath to uphold and defend the constitution is also an oath to support the constitution. There is no question as to whether the actions on January 6th were an insurrection, as several participants have already been convicted of seditious conspiracy. There is no question as to whether Trump supported them, because he live tweeted his support to the world in real time. There is no question as to whether Trump needs to be convicted, because the amendment never mentions conviction, and none of the other people previously disqualified under this amendment from office were convicted of anything.

      None of these arguments holds even the faintest hint of water. They are bad faith arguments made by political hacks with a predetermined agenda to support Trump. The court is illegitimate, and we have no functional justice system.

      • oxjox@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        Colorado had previously disqualified another candidate.

        Who was the other candidate? My understanding is that this case is unique in that it pertains to the President. The President is the only official elected by all Americans so this is what separates them from other officials, congressional candidates, presidential electors, etc. If someone is running for president, they should be accessible to vote for by all Americans.

        If someone is illegible for President, is it proper for individual states to make the determination to keep them off the ballot? Or should it be a decision made by congress, SCOTUS, the presidential electors, or the political party? This part isn’t mentioned in the constitution. And uhhh, as we know, the constitution says whatever isn’t in the constitution is left to the states. Still, that’s a tricky corner to be stuck in when you’re talking about 50 states voting for President.

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          It was indeed a presidential candidate. Hassan v Colorado, 2012.

          … as the magistrate judge’s opinion makes clear and we expressly reaffirm here, a state’s legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office. See generally Munro v. Socialist Workers Party, 479 U.S. 189, 193-95 (1986); Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 145 (1972).

          Also, you’ve got a typo. Ineligible. Illegible means something written so poorly that it cannot be understood.

    • CptEnder@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      While you’re correct, SCOTUS will most likely rule on the basis of this being “too politicized” and write some vague motions to support it. “Officer of the US” is just one of the many avenues they can take. It’s not the first time they’ve skirted controversial rulings this way.

      Tbf it’s also worked in reverse to uphold lower court rulings affirming civil rights, etc in the past too. Right or wrong, it’s a “how the sausage is made” moment for the Judiciary Branch.

      To be clear: I personally believe not upholding the Colorado/Maine, etc rulings to be a failure of our systems of checks and balances. Just pointing out the mechanism behind the court’s choices.

    • Soulg@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Not only is what you’re saying obviously correct, but THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED IN THE FUCKING AMENDMENT was asked about this exact lack of the word “president”, and pointed to the officer line, and said that clearly included the president.

      It’s also worth noting that there was just a single reference in the Senate debate to the fact that the president and vice president were not explicitly mentioned in Howard’s draft as “officer(s) of the United States,” the way members of Congress and state officials had been itemized in the text. Would the disqualification clause of the amendment not cover the top posts in the executive branch?

      “Why did you omit to exclude them?” asked Maryland Democratic Sen. Reverdy Johnson.

      Maine’s Lot Morrill jumped in to clarify.

      “Let me call the Senator’s attention to the words ‘or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States,’” Morrill said, ending the discussion on that point.

      https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/framers-14th-amendments-disqualification-clause-analysis/story?id=105996364