- NTSync coming in Kernel 6.11 for better Wine/Proton game performance and porting.
- Wine-Wayland last 4/5 parts left to be merged before end of 2024
- Wayland HDR/Game color protocol will be finished before end of 2024
- Nvidia 555/560 will be out for a perfect no stutter Nvidia performance
- KDE/Gnome reaching stability and usability with NO FKN ADS
- VR being usable
- More Wine development and more Games being ported
- Better LibreOffice/Word compatibility
- Windows 10 coming to EOL
- Improved Linux simplicity and support
- Web-native apps (Including Msft Office and Adobe)
- .Net cross platform (in VSCode or Jetbrains Rider)
What else am I missing?
What else am I missing?
The fact that 90% of people don’t give a shit about ads, privacy or their operating system in general. They want a machine to open a browser, that’s it. If Windows comes pre-installed, they’ll use Windows.
The only realistic chance we’ve got is that MS shoots itself in the foot once more by all that Recall crap and businesses drop Windows. But that’s a long shot.
Yes, but there are things that absolutely drove be crazy in Windows. When you switch to Korean, it would default to Latin characters, and you have to switch to Korean characters. Which is fine if you always use the Korean layout and just toggle between Latin and Korean characters, like most Koreans.
But I am actually learning Korean and I speak more than one other language. When I switch to Chinese I expect it to type in Chinese. When I switch to Korean, I expect it to type in Korean.
The most bullshit thing about Windows is if the default behavior doesn’t suit you, there’s no way to change it. You’re stuck with how Windows works because it’s batteries included.
I find most people don’t know of the alternatives but they are open to change as they are unhappy with current options that they are aware of. I’ve talked with a few people that were surprisingly open to to trying Linux. They didn’t know how easy it is to use and install but jumped on the opportunity as they were unhappy with Windows.
Until something breaks, or doesn’t have a GUI. The average user seeing a terminal means they will abandon it. And even if they are willing to handle a terminal to fix an issue, the toxic community members that flock to be the first to respond condescendingly to new users will turn them away permanently.
Linux communities have some of the most helpful users, but they also have people worse than a League of Legends game. And all it takes is one of them to turn the average person away forever.
Changing to Linux means, people…:
- need to have an understanding of operating systems, so they can think about alternatives
- need to be aware of the actual alternative
- need to be willing to learn something new
- need to be willing to leave some applications or games behind
- need to choose a Linux distribution
- need the technical ability and understanding to actually download, flash and boot from boot system, install it and setup initial, such as root password and such
These are basic and trivial stuff for us, but most normies don’t have this understanding and interest to go this far. And then it depends if they are happy and stay. Even if every PC manufacturer and distributor would offere the same PC with Windows and Linux, most would just choose Windows (probably). This is the current reality.
Mostly yes but there’s one other option that simplifies the whole thing: Chromebooks. They’re actually pretty decent for someone who doesn’t need much beyond a browser, a mail client, and a basic office suite.
Sure, they’re tied to Google with all that entails but they can be a real option for someone like a senior who relies on relatives for tech support.
Such a hard agree. My wife won’t even let me install Linux, which takes out the more technical aspects of the above.
She’s just comfortable on Windows. Most people don’t want to learn something new and even fewer actually care about privacy.
Edit: Us Linux users assume that if Windows gets bad enough people will switch to Linux, when we all should face facts that normies will much sooner switch to Mac.
that normies will much sooner switch to Mac.
Rich normies.
Sure, for the mac pro line with specs that us nerds care about.
I think some of those M1 mac airs are really affordable now though. For casual use it would be a good device for a tech illiterate person.
Or a mini.
I have an M2 mini I use for iOS builds, cheap enough for me to buy and stick in the rack to use for remote builds. I got that a year ago for $600ish iirc.
Yeah man. Apple still screws people when it comes to ram and storage options of course, but the base products are actually pretty good for the money.
Something I’ve never checked for but…are there any linux installers that run from within windows? Shrink the windows partition, create a linux partition, populate it, install grub, and tell the user to reboot and choose linux? I think general lack of good ext4 fs support in windows might make things difficult, but you don’t actually need to do that part from within windows. There could be a second installer that’s triggered the first time they boot from grub.
I feel like a well supported installer like that would dramatically lower the barrier to entry. It could make dual booting windows a breeze for anyone who knows how to run an installer and reboot, which is what people actually want.
This sounds awesome idea. Not sure if there is a technical reason why this could not be done. On the other hand, Windows already has WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux, is it still called like that?). All antivirus programs would probably go nuts. Windows itself is a restricted system and some things need to be done before booting into Windows. I assume if it was possible, then this would have been done before. At least I never heard about this. The best way is to have a preinstalled Linux on hardware.
Q4OS has an installer like that, but you have to change the boot order after installation, I don’t think it uses grub.
… And then something happens and they want you to install Windows again.
As much as I like Linux, compared to Windows and Mac OS it’s high maintenance. Once in a while, things will bork themselves. And you need to have at least a rough understanding of what’s happening to fix it.
Also (and that’s not a Linux problem per se) people seem to think if Windows breaks, MS or they themselves are at fault, if Linux breaks, that weird nerd and his hacker stuff are at fault.
I have to disagree, at least in my experience.
Windows causes more problems, both for my mum and myself.Her only purpose of a PC is basically to open a web browser, answer some mails and plug in a USB from time to time. For her, Mint never made one single problem, except when the hard drive failed.
She really liked the “boringness” and the old Windows charme.And for me, Linux never made any big troubles in general. When I used Tumbleweed, there were a few papercuts (e.g. graphical glitches, program freezes, etc.) due to the bleeding edge, but nothing major.
And since I use Fedora Atomic, I completely forget that I use an OS in general. I never have to update anything, I can’t break my stuff, etc…
It’s the most “boring” and user friendly OS I’ve used, even more than MacOS and Windows. Only Android/ iOS are better in that regard.But I’ve never seen my OS just borking itself. If that should ever happen, I can easily roll back in a second and it will work again.
And you need to have at least a rough understanding of what’s happening to fix it.
If you can fix Windows (which made way more problems after updates for me) then fixing Linux is way easier. And if you’re an average person, then you go to a local repair shop and say “My PC broke” and they reinstall Windows for you.
Without fail, every Linux installation I had destroyed itself after a while.
Be it a full boot partition, some weird driver compatibility, etc, etc.
My Windows installations (granted, all work laptops) never destroyed themselves. Yes, some bugs here and there, but it worked well enough for home usage. You can’t discount that.
Without fail, every Linux installation I had destroyed itself after a while.
User-induced trauma, poor distros.
The fact those poor distros exist means yet another hurdle for the average user to switch to Linux
Okay, but understand that from for example my point of view, your perception appears really skewed because my GNU/Linux installations have never “destroyed [themselves] after a while”. Respectfully, I think that you project your Linux failures unto the entire ecosystem, based on issues that were unique to you.
I’ve got the complete opposite to you. I’m in a household of 3 gaming desktops and 3 laptops, plus family who need help. I’ve been daily driving Linux for about a decade now and keep duel boot around just for Adobe products.
On all these machines, Linux hs been rock solid and never had issues that wasn’t user caused. Windows on the other hand drives me crazy with how much it fucks out. I have next to no control over it. It updates when it wants. I have no control over what’s updated. I hate the gods damn ads (and that’s on Windows 10) despite running de-crappifying software. I hate how many errors it has and how long it takes t troubleshoot them. I hate that if the system borks itself enough, it’s faster and less insanity inducing to just reinstall the whole os than try and fix it. I hate that Windows just gets progressively slower and laggier over time whereas my 6 year running Arch install was as fast as the day I installed it.
Business versions of Windows either won’t have recall or the domain controllers will be able to enforce a rule against it.
Businesses that already use Windows with all of the heavily integrated business-related stuff from Microsoft (AD, Exchange, SharePoint, Teams, Outlook, etc.) won’t change that just because a feature that most likely can be disabled via GPO.
Then people move to Mac.
Right! Sadly…😭
It’s true. I only use applications. The OS is a thing in the background that needs to get setup fast so I click an application and now I’m using my computer. I spend more time in my BIOS than I do the back of my OS.
Whichever OS does that best will always be the most popular.
Most of the points listed here don’t matter a hoot to the average user.
True.
The only thing the average consumer will even notice is the end of support for Windows 10. However, once the prompt to upgrade to Windows 11 appears, 99% will click “yes” and forget about it. They might be a little annoyed by the changes, but that will be all.
Nobody will notice end of support for Windows 10. Why would they? Nobody noticed end of support for Windows 7, either, and it’s still up and running in many places where it really shouldn’t.
End users don’t give a crap about security updates and as long as users don’t bump into a lack of third party driver they won’t even notice a difference. And yeah, like every other time they will eventually update to the current version once more practical issues crop up. 10 to 11 isn’t even close to the harshest upgrade path MS has deployed.
However, once the prompt to upgrade to Windows 11 appears, 99% will click “yes” and
be informed that their computer does not support Win11
and forget about it.
That’s slowly changing though, as the enschittification of windows continues. They may not care to know about the details, but all of those points do fall under the “it just works” catagory. And they do care about that.
I agree. However if you look through the other comments in here, you’ll see a LOT more examples of stuff that fall into the “it just doesn’t work” category instead. And most of them are a lot more obvious to casual / new users. Those would be the ones that really require priority if Linux is ever to become mainstream.
THE YEAR OF LINUX IN THE DESKTOP!
It’s like Lucy and the football.
Who is Lucy?
- Windows 11 getting Copilot+ Recall
And a shit-ton of ads.
And the kitchen sink
Oh wait that’s the next KDE release
What else am I missing?
Mostly just that these aren’t the things preventing people from switching.
Get them on storefronts on Costco, Best Buy, Walmart, etc. That’s when things will change.
You are missing the “GNU slash”,
GNU/Linux dethrones Windows
BusyBox/Linux dethrones ur dad
Why? There a non gnu linux distros
It’s called “Android”.
Well that is one yes. There are more than just one
Let me interject for a moment …
I think it’s going to take a Microsoft catastrophe, something that disables machines for at least a few days. I’m thinking maybe a buggy windows update.
Or a forced update to windows 11 on machine that doesn’t support it. That would break the windows install for good. Either they will find a way to install windows again or take it to somebody who installs windows on it again. Maybe maybe they’ll find out about Linux.
Meanwhile total recall happening with AI+Copilot
Dethrones? No. Not in the sense it will overtake Windows in numbers.
Grows its gamer ‘market share’? Absolutely.
Better LibreOffice/Word compatibility
Not on the MS side for sure, they’ve always made sure they don’t follow their own spec so they can more easily vendor-lock. Typical EEE from the company that coined it.
Windows 10 coming to EOL
That, per se, no, both XP and 7 kept existing for years, but 11 around the corner with ads and recall… that may steer some people away.
Web-native apps (Including Msft Office and Adobe)
Those are OS-agnostic and a way to keep using MS apps. Office is one of the hardest to let go (because of aforementioned reasons), especially in a corporate environment - which, most likely, is the bulk of MS customers in terms of revenue.
.Net cross platform (in VSCode or Jetbrains Rider)
Until they change something. EEE, remember?
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ChromeOS though is a category on its own. Just because there is a Linux kernel in it, doesn’t make it a Linux desktop.
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Yeah okay, now tell that to the guys at Statcounter or whoever determines the desktop market shares that they should fold in the chrome OS stat with Linux.
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You’re arguing about naming conventions, though. If you want to refer to Linux as Linux Kernel that’s fine, if a bit pedantic, but then you should be very strict about sticking to a separate name for the ecosystem of OSS Linux distros for desktops and laptops.
I haven’t once thought of Android or ChromeOS as Linux, for the same reasons I have never once thought of Linux as Unix or MS-DOS as a PC DOS version. If we’re going to conflate Linux with its proprietary alternatives let’s just call it something else. Dinux? There you go.
Dinux has all those problems you outlined in your first post, I agree.
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Any source regarding “VR being usable” on linux? The current development seems pretty stale and it doesn’t seem like that’s gonna change anytime soon, especially if you own any Oculus headsets that predates the quest. I do hope the rumors of valve making the deckard are true, but those are just rumors and should be taken with a grain of salt.
I mean… it just works? Since the Index is out it’s just been working basically. Not sure what else would be needed. Sure being able to use Quest headsets would be nice but unless Meta decides to open up, I don’t think it would happen. IMHO that’s a vendor problem, not the OS lacking support, sadly.
It’s definitely a vendor problem rather than an os problem. But it’s still a problem that the biggest manufacturer in the VR space has no support for Linux, hence i find it a bit farfetched to say VR is usable on Linux when the most popular hardware is not being supported by it’s vendor.
Though there are community efforts like Monado that looks pretty promising!
I mean if the vendor specifically decides NOT to support Linux AND there are viable alternative that do, e.g Valve Index, that run IMHO some of the best content, i.e Half-life:Alyx, then IMHO popularity is indeed important but it does show it’s not an OS problem.
Wait, if Steam VR works on Linux for Index are Quest HMDs not usable through Steam Link? Or does that still need the Oculus software installed? I’m not actually sure.
AFAIK it’s Windows only https://www.meta.com/en-gb/help/quest/articles/headsets-and-accessories/oculus-link/requirements-quest-link/ so some things work, e.g adb so you can install APKs or use scrcpy but you can’t rendering on desktop via e.g SteamVR and use the Quest officially.
Quest Link yes, I was referring to the alternative Steam Link app that is available on Quest. That’s maintained by Valve (and honestly works better than the wireless version of Quest Link, IMO). I was wondering if that works as an alternative, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are still dependencies for controller inputs and head tracking that need Oculus software installed to work on the server side.
SteamVR 2.0 dropped a bit ago, though it didn’t do much for Linux users…
But it does point to something still happening with VR over at Valve.
Any source regarding “VR being usable” on linux?
I use VR with my Index almost every week on Linux. Filled to the brim with minor issues but definitely useable.
Still looking forward to a Deckard announcement, the Index is starting to show its age.
I switched from Windows to Linux full time around Feb 2024.
I think Linux is ready for desktop use.
I stopped using Windows in the XP era. Later on I started working in a job that required me to have a Win8 laptop. 2 years later I reverted back to Linux once I stopped working there and had Win8/10 as a game OS. But my main “serious” usage was on Linux.
I switched in 2021 and I thought the same then.
I’m a Mac guy and I have a PC for gaming. I just installed Mint on my PC and it has been working great for gaming. I probably won’t need Windows ever again.
Most games work on Linux or with Steam Proton.
But some games still don’t or has kernel level anti-cheat systems.
I would just ignore those games.
The one thing that would drive my parents over the edge is ads in Windows. They already use Firefox and Libreoffice.
STOP
When windows 10 stops working is the better chance. Even then, not convinced it’ll be year of Linux.
I once ran a poll on Reddit asking why people switched to Linux. More people responded it was because Microsoft launched a new hated version of Windows than Microsoft discontinued an old beloved version. ie more people switched because Win 8 came out than Win 7 died.
I get the sense that both of those two things are somewhat true here. They’re getting rid of 10, and people want to avoid 11.
I’m pretty sure 95% of people don’t even know what Windows is. It’s just part of the computer to them.
My dad switched for vista, I switched for 10 for a while. Who knows, maybe I’ll switch for 11 too
I dual-booted for a while & was on Microsoft Windows 7. I was using it less & less–usually just to play specific game. When MS Windows 10 was announced with an all new set of privacy invasive features on by default & 7 was going to be phased out, & as I got older with less time I wanted to spend with games, I decided to completely pull the plug on Microsoft & saying that there were enough games out there that worked on Linux (Proton infancy) that if Linux support wasn’t out of the box, I would just choose something else. The same will happen with some folks as 10 support is pulled–where if I thought 10 was too privacy-invasive, 11 + Recall is a nightmare.
