I’m interviewing for a software dev job currently (it’s in the initial stages). If things work out, I’d absolutely prefer a work laptop with Linux installed (I personally use PopOS but any distro will do), a Mac will be second choice, but I absolutely cannot tolerate Windows, I abhor it, I hate it… (If all computers left on earth have Windows I’d either quit this field or just quit Earth).
Sometimes it’s possible to tell if they use Windows or not, for example, jobs with dotnet/C# are most likely using windows, but not in my case.
Anyways, is it too weird to ask what kind of laptop they provide to their employees? And to also specifically ask for a Linux (or anything but windows) work laptop?
In my experience most non-Microsoft organisations use Mac’s for development but deploy to Linux in production.
It’s rather insane because this of course creates lots of subtle differences between Dev and prod, although not as many as if dev was a Windows box.
To answer your question though - just ask in the interview what the deal is so you know what you’re in for.
If you deviate from the norm (i.e request a Linux box when everyone else is using MacOS) you’re always going to be the guy with issues that nobody else has.
If the company has any kind of standard mobile device management - it probably won’t work on Linux.
This will trigger the security team and probably the IT team because there’s always this outlier device that can’t run the standard VPN client or can’t have DNS config pushed to it or the Linux version of some app has bugs that don’t surface on the Mac version
Im Linux all the way, but saying the difference from Windows to prod is bigger does not take wsl into account. It is way more near linux production environments than Mac.
Thanks for saying that. I have no idea why that gets overlooked so often.
As much as I like to shit on Windows, WSL is ingenious and many dev tools integrate it nicely.
I really don’t get why Apple doesn’t offer anything in that direction, where devs are a big target audience for them and they already ride the POSIX train.
Those differences between Dev and prod are usually mitigated by containers to be fair.
i asked for Linux, they said sure… and gave me a windows laptop.
i asked thecnical support “we only supply windows laptop”
I wouldn’t work a windows exclusive job, it’s a deal breaker for me, so I’d definitely ask. I work in an all Mac shop that does enterprise cloud architecture.
@carl_dungeon @flakpanzer Personally an apple job would be even lower on my list than a Windows job (which is already a deal-breaker to me)
Agreed. The average Windows laptop has three critical redeeming qualities, over a similar Mac:
- Ease of live booting into Linux
- Ease of dual booting into Linux
- Ease of reimagine to Linix
If you value getting paid I’d highly suggest not tampering with any computer that isn’t yours.
@MajorHavoc Plus it can even be quite ecologically good, the parts are not serialized so you cannot replace them yourself, it almost feels as if you own it (especially once you own the software on it)
Or at least WSL so you’re testing on a LinuxKernel.
Yeah. Joking aside, WSL wins over Mac, for me. It’s not perfect, but it’s closer.
Why? Having used all three, currently using all three in some capacity…I’d put them in order of Linux, Mac, then windows. At least with Mac you have a *nix like system with things like zsh, coreutils, homebrew, and iterm2. You can even set up tiling window managers.
Not to mention they are fantastic pieces of hardware and if you are doing any dev work with AI/ml the metal cores are sweet.
If only asking the same thing for non-computer jobs would be accepted. I always have to use my personal laptop.
Even in an IT job I prefer using my own gear (laptop+keyboard+mouse). Corporate laptops (+ peripherals) almost always universally suck. Therfore I won’t accept a job unless they have a decent BYOD scheme. At my current workplace for instance, most of our core apps are cloud-based already, and for the few legacy apps, we can access via Citrix; plus they also reimburse me (to an extent) for using my own laptop, which is nice. With my own gear, I can spec it however I want and use my own favorite apps, without needing to go thru approvals and red tape, and more importantly - I can use my own distro/DE of choice. Like, imagine if a company offered Linux laptops, but you were forced to use Ubuntu or something worse like Oracle Linux… So yea, BYOD FTW.
@flakpanzer@lemmy.world if I were you, I’d ask if BYOD is an option, and if so what their BYOD scheme is like. As a Linux person, it’s always better to use your own gear, than whatever el cheapo locked-down system the company offers.
It’s not weird, you can ask the recruiter or even the developer doing the interview what is the work environment (i.e. at the end, “do you have any question for me”). It’s a perfectly valid question.
You don’t have to go into details and go into a flamewar about Windows, at most just mention that it’s not your preference.
I think it’s better to avoid talking about how you “absolutely cannot tolerate”, “hate” a given platform because that in itself could be a red flag to some interviewers. If you feel this way about Windows, maybe you’ll feel this way about frameworks/libraries that has already been picked and be a pain to work with.
This is the right answer, especially if you can’t afford to not take the job.
IMO generally be a positive about Linux rather than negative about Windows. Asking about what systems they support is reasonable though. Just know that you may be passing up jobs if this is your hill to die on.
I personally got hired recently, and did ask this in one of the interviews, and luckily we can choose which OS we get to run on the machines. However only those with Windows get IT support if needed. Which I guess is fair… Hope you get your wishes fulfilled!
I KNOW I’m gonna get A LOT of hate for typing this, but if a MacBook is cheaper than the laptop you want, you should get a MacBook…
What does that even mean?
The Apple M_ processors are great for performance to power usage ratio (and peak performance in general), so a MacBook is a good choice of laptop (even to run Linux on it).
Linux is currently not available on Apple silicon as anything other than a half baked alpha build with a ton of essential stuff missing. Not even remotely ready to be used as the primary OS. And that’s on the M1. It’s even worse on the more recent chips.
I run Asahi Linux on the M1, and it’s been working great for the last six months or so.
Edit: I wouldn’t necessarily recommend buying one to run Linux at the moment, for one thing they’re overpriced, but I was clarifying why the original comment would have suggested an M1.
If the laptop I want is more expensive that a MacBook its because it has some serious hardware or very specialized feature set. If you want an average spec machine save the money and just get it instead of MacBook
No way. Even if you try to run Linux on it, the keyboard is a mac mangled keyboard.
You’re better off leaving it on MacOS, which is still better than Windows but not by much
Last 3 jobs I’ve worked at, I made it sure they understood I needed a Linux laptop to work. They all offered MacBooks (and I made the mistake of taking the MacBook once), but as long as it’s a good company (i.e. no removed IT department) they’ll allow it
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I’ve always asked when talking to the person in charge (not HR, they don’t know jack): “Which OS do you use and are you open to Linux?”
Had to turn down multiple jobs that were Windows/Mac only. They deployed web apps to the cloud aka linux and refused to develop on linux 🤷
Last I remember, according to the stackoverflow dev survey 40% of devs used Linux at work. Don’t be afraid to ask.
It’s part of salary negotiation for me. When I figure how much they have to pay me, I add some more in if it’s o365 or teams.
It’s a pittance, easily dwarfed by a RTO tax or forced standby tax, but it’s in there.
Why don’t you just state your preference is Linux? I wouldn’t worry about it to much until you get though the job screening process but if they are getting close to offering you the job it can’t hurt to state your preference. Don’t be demanding of course.
It’s not weird, but be ready to be turned down for the job if they’re a Windows shop.
I develop C# dotnet on Linux. It’s fine but normal “I’m the only Linux user” issues apply such as case-sensitive filenames.
I develop C# on Linux, but I run the full VS inside of a Windows 10 VM.
Rider works pretty well also if you’re allowed to put add Linux support to projects. The Edit and Continue is not as nice though, even though support for it on Linux got merged into dotnet 8.
It’s not a weird thing to ask during the interview. It would be a weird thing to request, but not to enquire about.
I don’t know about that. During my job interview, I requested that (with the necessary politeness) and it wasn’t weird. I accepted the offer and now work daily on a GNU+Linux machine. It’s nice.
I’d enquire during the interview and request when accepting the offer (or during onboarding). Don’t ask me for a laptop while I’m still interviewing. It’s an interview. I’m not giving you shit.
Obviously? Who would just give you stuff when you’re not even employed 😂😂
Recruiter swag happens.
Nobody’s given me a laptop though.
