So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
y’all
And, for larger groups, all y’all.
Y’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.
Vosotros agrees.
Or in German: euch
I’m under the impression that you pronounce it the same way this cat looks.
You know… that’s about right.
😂😂😂😂😂
I still wonder why English (a Germanic language) doesn’t have its own pronoun for the plural 2nd person like German (euch) or Dutch (jullie), I think it kinda helps with distinction between talking to one person and talking to multiple people.
The problem is… what pronoun should we choose? I think “yinz” would sound kinda cool, but nobody outside of a very specific spot in the US actually uses it (other than myself I guess).
Ustedes if you’re less formal or you live outside Spain 😁
if you’re less formal
What a fun way to phrase that. You’re not wrong but it’s making me giggle.
It sounds cringeworthy if you’re not American though. The standard way of saying it is “you lot” and other dialects, like mine, have “yous”.
Here where I’m from in the US, you occasionally hear a “y’alls” and now I’m going to start using it as a cultural gap between your dialect and mine.
It’s become the go-to in my company
Do you work with me? I’m in the US south and my EU colleagues love “y’all” and have started using it (ironically or not :) pretty often.
Warms my heart.
I have no hint of a Southern accent, but when I moved here “y’all” became almost an instant part of my vocabulary.
A LOT of my company is remote, but we are headquartered in Providence Rhode Island.
I agree. It’s the plural of “you” that should be the official standard, since it disambiguates “you.” It can even be broadened to include larger groups via “all y’all,” as in, not just y’all in talking to, but all y’all in the house.
It can replace “guys”, but not “man,” though.
The plural of you is yous or ye. In Ireland at least.
I can’t do it, I don’t want to sound like I’m from the South.
Take it from them!
If everyone starts using it, it won’t sound southern any more. C’mon, you know you want to.
you’uns
Or if you’re near Pittsburgh, “yinz” is the proper spelling/pronunciation.
Youse if you’re a Geordie.
further down under you may hear “hey, yous lot…”
I use y’all a lot and im near Chicago
I’ve started using it and I’m Canadian.
I’ve started using it and I’m north of Canada … In Detroit
Did you know that you can be north of Canada … in California?
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-75f887668c7f322a0dd1a226e128cea3
TIL
At a more northern latitude than part of Canada. Detroit is directly north of part of Canada
What in the world. They need to fix that on the next patch.
For those not in the US south and afraid of being judged, “all” on its own is an option.
“Hi all” is unlikely to raise any eyebrows
Scott the Woz on Lemmy? :o
“Hey y’all, Scott here.”
yall sounds super trashy.
yinz
Guys is always fine as it refers to followers of Guy Faulks and pretty much anyone has probably considered blowing up parliament at some point.
I’m AFAB enby, saying “you guys” and calling me “dude” is fine. Those to me aren’t gendered anymore. The people who get offended at general terms like these for groups of people need to touch grass.
But if you’re dead set on it, embrace y’all lol. Just don’t say it with a southern drawl and you’ll be fine. It’s a fantastic gender neutral term. You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
No southern drawl? Y’all is like our one positive contribution don’t take it away from those of us who ain’t bigots
Yeah I agree, bro, but I wouldn’t use guys or dudes on old ladies
Well no lol you gotta read the room sometimes 😅
You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
This is likely the best solution, but also a hard one. Thanks for the perspective though.
“Offended” is a bit of a strong word.
Many trans folks are, understandably, bummed out when gendered terms that refer to their AGAB are used to refer to them.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to avoid causing that brief moment of dysphoria. That just feels like a thoughtful and kind thing to do.
It’s good that OP means well, but also there are so many of us who do not care and are not affected because we know the speaker is using a generalized term and isn’t (usually) being malicious with it. I call several of my cisgender girl friends “dude” and “bro” and I’ll call men “girl” as a joke sometimes (like, girl what are you doing?). Many of these terms simply have completely lost their original gendered meaning in a lot of contexts.
I’m also on Team “these words have lost their meaning” but personally feel the opposite way from OP.
When people go out of their way to force inclusive language in a way that feels unnatural, and especially when I’m the only trans person in the room, it feels like I’m being singled out for my identity. I’m sure it’s being done with good intent but it makes me uncomfortable. It’s extra uncomfortable if they’re making (often incorrect) assumptions about my body in the process. I don’t need special language, the language already exists, I just want people to use it.
That said, I won’t fault someone for trying to be inclusive and always respect other people’s language preferences. But too much can be just as uncomfortable as too little.
(For context I’m 10 years MTF)
Good point dude
That’s great, and it’s nice that you don’t have to deal with that jolt of dysphoria in those situations.
I’m simply saying that it’s also common (and okay) to not be entirely comfortable with those terms. Especially from strangers or acquaintances.
I don’t think seeking to reduce the linguistic pattern of male as the default is a misguided effort.
Is buddy really a problem?
I’d be more worried that someone thinks I’m treating them like a dog, than a man.
deleted by creator
Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.
A lot of people use “folks” for plural.
I feel like “guys” is fairly un-gendered but people disagree with me. Personally, I haven’t used the word “guys” to refer to anything male in what seems like forever.
“Bud” and “fella” are good singulars.
I used to have a maths teacher who called almost every number “guy”.
“And this guy goes to zero, while this guy goes to infinity!”
“Guys” is ungendered.
Reconsider whether it’s worth being friends that insist on fighting over the term “guys”.
And if you are surrounded by a lot of particularly sensitive people, just call them “friend” or “friends”. It works for people you both like and dislike. Glorious.
Sure, but as a professional (teacher) I’m not willing to put my career on the line by challenging a sensitive parent. A few years ago we were told not to use that word, and when it comes to things like that, I do as I’m told.
“Listen up you little shits”. Perfectly non-gendered!
That makes sense.
Teachers have to do a lot of stupid shit these days.
Aw yeahhhh, everyone’s into guys 🫦
(well, except aro/ace people maybe)
If you are in the Midwest, Guys is absolutely gender neutral.
It is indeed.
Meh, people who want to fight over the term ‘guys’ are in the minority.
They can probably just be ignored.
Modifying my language choices is literally the least I can do to make people feel more included, so anyone who can’t fathom doing that is for sure, not worthy of being a friend.
I really, really wish we could degender “guy” and “guys”. I know plenty of people of all genders that use the words in general to describe people, objects, concepts, everything. The only holdouts are people that insist on it specifically meaning males. Ironically, these people are often the hardcore feminists.
If other English words can change their meanings and be claimed/reclaimed by certain groups, why can’t others?
Take guy! Use it to describe whatever you want! Free it of its historically phallic shackles!
Yeah, I agree with you gal, while we’re at it I wish we could degender “gal”, “chick”, and “doll” too. Equality for all!
This sounds not to dissimilar to those who argued that legalizing gay marriage would lead to people marrying horses or their cars.
My car married the horse down the road last year
How’s that? I’m not arguing against anything, I said I want more words to be disgendered
How come people seem to only want words that were originally masculine coded words to be disgendered, but don’t want that for words that are originally feminine coded?
Guy was originally gender neutral as it was used to call someone stupidly bold (iirc). The term was most often used toward a single gender that was known for being stupidly bold and became synonymous with that gender. That’s how it became gendered.
I’m a cis woman in IT, I’m guy, dude, man, bro… I don’t really care. You can change to make a specific person feel more confortable but most woman don’t care to be dude or guy
“Foolish mortals” is my go-to gender neutral form of address
Choom(s).
Meatbags?
Dude.
I’m a dude. He’s a dude, She’s a dude. We’re all dudes.
Trans women sometimes feel uncomfortable when they are called dude, so if you’re aiming for maximum comfort of people, dude is not a great choice.
Well, to make a more serious comment instead of just quoting an old song from an old movie, it’s definitely most important to call people by pronouns that they prefer. That’s the number 1 priority.
That said, I have some trans friends who don’t like gender neutral pronouns in general. One in particular has explained how much she has gone through to be able to identify as a woman, and using “they” instead of “she” makes her feel like she still isn’t a woman.
So the real answer is there’s no one word that will make everyone happy. They best way to do that is to ask people the pronouns they prefer.
I never though about that aspect of it, thanks for sharing that friend’s perspective.
the best take. as with everything, there is no one size fits all solution
Yep, especially your mom, she’s probably the best dude
Hey !
Cheese bags.
“YOU PEOPLE” 😂 I’m kidding
Fellas
Peeps
Folks for groups and friend for individuals is my go to. Comrade if you want to be spicy
