- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
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COULD YOU PLEASE STOP SHOUTING I HEAR YOU VERY WELL WITHOUT THAT, THANK YOU.
“Military sites”
They’re residential buildings.
They’ll be hitting hospitals next with the same pretext.
We’ve already gone over this
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/86caaa7e-5328-4dc1-adda-a75f42ed8514.jpeg
Iran has the right to defend itself.
The exact copy paste comment is weird
yeah. It was when genocide apologists were saying it about netanyahu’s genocidal apartheid regime, too. So get used to it.
Iran has the right to defend itself.
Iran has the right to defend itself.
Iran has the right to defend itself.
Followed predictably by Iran directly attacking Tel Aviv.
no f ing shit
Wake up babe, hot new axis of terror just dropped.
posting on lemmy from 1948… wow
It’s an old one. The US has been aligned wirh Israel for decades.
Uncritical support of Iran please kick in the face of Israel and USA
When people point out the west is far from being the “good guys” shit like this is what they have in mind. USA and Europe supported israel and armed it to teeth making possible for the fascist israel government to conduct such attacks. If you don’t accept that our governments are as much rigged and evil as russia or china these useless war will never cease.
Why would you think people in the west would be upset about this?
If anything, the west has armed the shit out of Israel so they can do exactly this. Iran is a major Russian ally/puppet and an Islamic theocracy having nukes would be a very bad thing indeed. That’s not to say Israel hasn’t lied about why they’ve done this, because the footage of burning buildings in the middle of cities speak for themselves. They don’t look like no “nuclear research facilities” I’ve ever seen, so we’re clearly back to just bombing entire buildings to kill one person (if they were even there).
Iran knew full well what the response would be when they armed Hamas for the October attacks. It would mean Gaza being wiped off the map. Sure, those attacks hurt Israel, but they hurt Palestinians a whole lot more. Iran was just hoping that the resulting genocide stopped the west funding them.
If people in the west want this to stop (and lets be honest, any voting choices are pointless because all our major parties support war in the middle east), then we need to stop using oil and gas, so this whole area can go back to being a chunk of irrelevant desert so that all major players can take their fucking fingers out of it.
so we’re clearly back to just bombing entire buildings to kill one person (if they were even there).
To me it sound like after admitting a war crime you are still pretending to be one of the good guys.
Iran knew full well what the response would be when they armed Hamas for the October attacks. It would mean Gaza being wiped off the map.
And so does israel government. They are aware that attacking iran may result in a war where thousand civilians may die but they don’t give a shit about it.
then we need to stop using oil and gas, so this whole area can go back to being a chunk of irrelevant desert so that all major players can take their fucking fingers out of it.
The area house some of the oldest cultures in the world, read its history. We should indeed stop using oil and gas and that’s something “extremists” have preach for decades warning us against global warming and conflicts.
To me it sound like after admitting a war crime you are still pretending to be one of the good guys.
Don’t mistake me pointing out what they’re doing for support of that “tactic”. Iran does not have infinite resources to build new facilities. You blow those labs up, it’s gone. Blow it up in the day, so were those nuclear scientists. Israeli intel is pretty damn good, even if their military are inhumane savages. They know where the facilities are, and they can knock them out whenever they want.
There is exactly one regional threat to Israel’s existence, and it’s a nuclear armed Iran.
And they do indeed have some of the oldest cultures in the world, but it all got a hell of a lot worse when we found oil under it.
Israeli intel is pretty damn good
It’s not good at all. Israel forces have been murdering so many civilians that collateral damage has become part of their plans. What they are doing won’t result in any peace or safety, they are setting the ground for even more conflicts which is exactly what those in power want. They are pretty damn good at serving their fascist ruler.
It’s not good at all. Israel forces have been murdering so many civilians that collateral damage has become part of their plans.
So… you must know that the atrocities committed have nothing to do with the quality of their intel.
In other words, the comment makes 0 sense as a reply. I mean it’s a fine comment on its own, it’s just not at all a reply to what you quoted. I really only bring it up for your benefit, because being unrelated to the quote like that makes the comment seem dishonest, which makes the rest of your message less credible.
I don’t work for any fascist government so i’m not much familiar with how they operates, does intel/intelligence only collects data or do they also plan operations? I was referring to their strategies and tactics.
Anyway to stay on the topic even their intel that just collect data is not that “good”. Israel government run mass surveillance programs that affect just everyone.
You two are talking past each other. None of what you wrote has any connection to what the other person wrote. In fact, you guys probably don’t disagree about anything. OP is just giving an explanatory description, not a normative essay.
I’d argue that a nuclear Iran is not the only threat to Israel. Pretty much every other nation in the region hates their guts and wants them wiped off the map, and Israel has only stopped this from happening due to western support for their military. Iran nuking them is definitely a threat. But the other big threat Israel must contend with is losing Western support and munitions. Without that, a coalition of Arab states would overrun Israel in a conventional war.
My bet: Israel knows it is losing the war of public opinion in the West. So it is trying to start a war with Iran to get the West to support it again. Your ally committing genocide against an enemy that has almost no resources and no means of escape is a difficult stance to maintain. But supporting your ally in a war against your sworn enemy has a lot more public appeal - or so Israel hopes.
I have to say this I don’t buy this constant nuclear threat. Iran supposedly started their nuclear program 30 years ago. Either they have a bomb or they will never get it. It doesn’t take that long to replicate what other countries did in a few years.
Nuking israel would mean harming palestinians too. This will never happen. Iran is not crazy to nuke any other countries just like all the current nuclear powers
You seem to be entirely ignoring comtinual efforts to prevent them from becoming so empowered including murdering their scientists, bribing their leaders, drawing up agreements and them just not pushing it because the natural and expected results is war.
It is reasonable to expect that any given year the US would rather kill them all rather than let them have nukes.
What makes you think any arab nation cares about the Palestinians’ well-being?
The same point stands. What makes you think the Persians care about Palestinians?
i can’t debate an idiot who think iran is an arab country
Oh they hate them, but they can’t do anything about them. Egypt had a go (with a load of Soviet Union support, back when that meant something), and after 6 days they’d lost a huge amount of their own country. Syria still haven’t got all their land back even now.
This attack appears to be timed to coincide with Trump’s 60 day deadline for whatever nonsense he thought they were going to agree to, so there’s a good chance the US told them to do it and when.
Right. My point is that the Arab states lost to Israel because Israel was backed by the West. Without western support, a tiny Jewish state with almost no natural resources and a small population would be hard-pressed to stand its ground against a coalition of Arab states with a much larger population, oil money, and possible Russian backing. All the Arab states would need to do is keep taking pot shots at Israel while their superior military technology degrades and their stockpiles dwindle. A modern fighter jet relies on thousands of hyper-specific, high precision parts which can only be sources from western manufacturers. One part breaks and your whole plane is grounded. Even if the Arab states are not in great shape themselves, they win a war of attrition handily - especially once the average Israeli sees the inevitable and flees, depriving Israel of its soldiers and intellectual economy.
Otoh, your timeline argument is reasonable, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this wasn’t a coincidence in one way or another.
They only really need the support of one western state, and it’s a big one. They are not going to abandon the precious “Holy Land” any time soon. I don’t know what the average American thinks is going on out there, but it ain’t that.
It wasn’t on the table during the election, and I doubt it will be in the future either. It’s practically a US outpost, and frankly, this should be considered a US attack on Iran. Nothing will be done about it either way.
There are structural and cultural issues behind the military failures of Israel’s Arab neighbors that have nothing to do with Western support.
What do you want Iran to do when they get imposed heavy sanctions from everywhere they have no option but to rely on Russian again. Iran could have been a normal country with good relation will all country but the west interfered and organized a coup to back up a dictator.
Iran autocracy is an internal affair no foreign countries government has to interfere. We can just as people protest the theocracy but not supporting killing Iranians under the pretext of democracy like we did in Iran.
If you really cared about democracy you would have also pretested american support for Saudi arabia
You guys remember when you woke up and our biggest problem was Disney disappointing people with its Star Wars trilogy?
Kinda miss those times now.
Not to ruin your moment, but both the Rwandan genocide and the Bosnian genocide happened several years before the star wars prequels
I’m not trying to scare you, but the 90s was over two decades ago… I know I’m still in denial too
I remember the time before everyone and their mother lived chronically online and were constantly bombarded with (fake) news. Terrible stuff - wars, famine, whatnot - has always happened, now we just know about it instantly.
The Last Jedi and and Rise of Skywalker came out during Trump’s first term, UK had triggered article 50, natural disasters, North Korea was ramping up nuclear testing, a new age of fake news was taking shape, trade war, rise of Hindu nationalism… you know what you’re right, I do miss those times compared to now… But you know maybe this is the second act when things are most dire before… Well depends on the story arc 😅
We will apparently always have a list of all the fires to update that song with, the trick seems to mostly be getting it to fit to the rhythm.
Yes or finding out the next installment of your favorite game was delayed again
Still waiting for the next Elder Scrolls game
Fuck Israel and their bs
Fuck sexist and homophobic theocracy.
Fuck pinkwashing apartheid.
I agree, fuck Israel!
Which one? They’re all like that.
Indeed, though Mosaddegh lived over 70 years ago and I’ve read nothing bad about him on that issue, so I’ll give him a pass for now.
I wonder why Iran has a theocracy instead of a democracy. They used to have a democracy, what happened to it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d’%C3%A9tat
Mosaddegh was overthrown.
About 25 years after that, the Shah was overthrown by a sexist and homophobic theocracy.
If Iran’s mode of government were really the casus belli of Israel’s attacks, they would be providing support for revolutionary movements within Iran, not bombing their capital city including civilian apartment buildings and claiming that they’re only targeting nuclear sites. If having a government that denies equal rights to certain groups is justification enough for attacks on civilian populations in the capital, think about what that means for Tel Aviv.
For the record, I don’t really support these strikes, but neither am I terribly passionate in opposing them for reasons I’ve stated.
If Iran’s mode of government were really the casus belli of Israel’s attacks, they would be providing support for revolutionary movements within Iran,
I wouldn’t be too surprised if the US and Israel were doing a little of such, though the contributions would hardly be significant.
wp:International Railroad for Queer Refugees doesn’t seem to be getting much support from Israel.
not bombing their capital city including civilian apartment buildings and claiming that they’re only targeting nuclear sites.
Such places might have stuff and people of interest, but yeah, they’ve been saying that a lot about their targets in Gaza.
If having a government that denies equal rights to certain groups is justification enough for attacks on civilian populations in the capital, think about what that means for Tel Aviv.
and if Hamas, Islamic Jihad, et al narrowed their attacks to just soldiers, cops, many of the politicians, and settlers, I wouldn’t have much of a problem with it.
For the record, I don’t really support these strikes, but neither am I terribly passionate in opposing them for reasons I’ve stated.
You should be more passionate in opposing them because this shit is the closest we’ve ever been to WW3 and Israel only seems interested in further escalation.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if the US and Israel were doing a little of such, though the contributions would hardly be significant.
wp:International Railroad for Queer Refugees doesn’t seem to be getting much support from Israel.
Gee, I wonder why that is. It couldn’t be that Israel doesn’t give a shit about equal rights, being a fascist ethnostate themselves, surely. This isn’t a “both sides” situation, Israel is clearly the aggressor, and no good can possibly come from this.
Such places might have stuff and people of interest, but yeah, they’ve been saying that a lot about their targets in Gaza.
It’s interesting that your instinct is to assume some level of good faith on Israel’s part. Perhaps you should examine that?
and if Hamas, Islamic Jihad, et al narrowed their attacks to just soldiers, cops, many of the politicians, and settlers, I wouldn’t have much of a problem with it.
The standard of violence is set by the oppressor. It’s a clear double standard that you speak charitably about Israel’s attacks on civilians immediately before dismissing others for theirs. Not to mention the massive difference in scale.
You should be more passionate in opposing them because this shit is the closest we’ve ever been to WW3 and Israel only seems interested in further escalation.
We’ve been far closer to WWIII in the past.
Iran is not (enough of) a Russian ally.
Gee, I wonder why that is. It couldn’t be that Israel doesn’t give a shit about equal rights, being a fascist ethnostate themselves, surely. This isn’t a “both sides” situation, Israel is clearly the aggressor, and no good can possibly come from this.
Iran has been helping Israel’s enemies—Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Assad gang—and chanting “Death to Israel” (and “Death to America”) for decades. When it comes to needlessly killing Arabs, I’m not sure who’s worse: US or Iran.
It’s interesting that your instinct is to assume some level of good faith on Israel’s part.
I don’t really: at least not these past several years.
Perhaps you should examine that?
Perhaps I should.
The standard of violence is set by the oppressor. It’s a clear double standard that you speak charitably about Israel’s attacks on civilians immediately before dismissing others for theirs.
2 wrongs don’t make a right.
Not to mention the massive difference in scale.
You might have an argument there: the legitimate-targets-to-innocent-civilian ratio of Hamas on 7 October 2023 versus Israel’s response.
Why the united snake don’t bomb saudis then?
Probably because their foreign policy is hypocritical.
because you are the hypocrite
Prove it.
People just have to read your comment to know that you are
What comment?
All those morons who voted for trump hope you enjoy being even more broke for the next decade and your sons going to war to die so rich cunts can get richer
This is one of those cases where both sides really are the same.
As if this only started under Trump…
Him pouring gasoline on the fire sure as shit didn’t help.
Not did it help when Biden did, what’s your point?
Biden was not nearly critical enough towards Israel, he did not stop supplying them with weapons, but it seemed like he was at least not happy with what Netanyahu is doing. Trump, on the other hand, is very clear in his explicit approval and practically daring Israel to do more. There is a difference.
Both are bad, both are wrong, but even you have to be able to see that one option is worse than the other.
but it seemed like
Pure vibes based politics
The fan fiction you’ve written in your head to justify your teams support of genocide does not actually make a real difference.
In the real world, the one where facts matter, Biden was full throated and active in his support of Israel, to the point of going up and repeating lies about beheaded babies.
but even you have to be able to see that one option is worse than the other.
It’s telling that even you cannot justify the actual actions of the Biden administration, so you have to make up your own fantasy version to defend them.
The only difference between Trump and Biden on Israel is that, under Trump, liberals like you stop engaging in mass genocide denialism to defend their team.
Iran is a paper tiger. A war of that scale can only be fought if the other side has the capabilities to fight back, Iran does not.
Yeah, I am a bit shocked at Iran’s level of incompetence. Lol, I remember when Kamala confidently proclaimed that “Iran is America’s biggest adversary.”
So much of a paper tiger that thry need support for all the west
What has Iran done that actually constitutes a proportional response? Every time they get humiliated by Israel, they shoot a bunch of empty missles and then claim that they destroyed Tel Aviv, even though more than 90% of their missles don’t hit anything.
Videos show the opposite of what you claim
What videos? Besides we’re going off of assessed damage. Israel kills Haniyeh in Tehran and Iran shoots a bunch of empty missles that barely hit anything. Israel kills 20+ of their top commanders in one night and Iran again shoots a bunch of empty missles that barely hit anything. Israel neuters Hezbollah, Iran does nothing. Israel bombs the Iranian embassy in Syria, and Iran does nothing. Mossad agents have been confirmed being literally everywhere in the Iranian state, and they do nothing.
Iran hasn’t done any percesion strikes or targeted assassinations or caused any damage to Israeli defenses or destroyed any critical Israeli infrastructure or any covert intelligence operations. They’ve done nothing because they can’t do anything. The Iranian regime literally made destroying Israel a core part of their identity, and over the past few years, Israel has been destroying them without any pushback. For a regime that brags about their prowess and capabilities, why haven’t they used them already? The answer is simple, Iran is a paper tiger.
Videos of israeli filming the damage despite israel trying to censor them. There is already dozens of reported injured israelis.
The real plan is to do a regime change it won’t happen
Are you hearing yourself? You sound ridiculous.
Results of Israel’s attacks:
-
20+ of the IRGC’s top commanders
-
Invaluable nuclear scientists
-
Military systems sabatoged
-
Nuclear facilities damaged
-
Airfields and other critical infrastructure damaged
Results of Iran’s retaliation:
-
A couple dozen Israeli civilian injuries
-
A few damaged buildings
These are not at all comparable. Clearly did way more damage to the Iranian regime, and Iran’s response is undeniably weaker.
-
Don’t blame it just on trump voters, any cents you ever paid to the government also went into this.
good thing I stoped giving a shit if their kids die.
Guess I’m dead. Good riddance.
Of course with the exception of those who know their parents are shit
Removed by mod
You thinking that are just two type of voters is disgusting, blame the system that allows for just two parties not the people.
The system is bad!
…
Participate in it!
Whataboutism is the tool of the enemy.
Training you to use thought terminating cliches like that is the work of the enemy.
Biden didn’t start the fire. It’s been burning since the world was turning.
Welp, we had a good run. See ya in the trenches. Or whatever.
I’ve never been happier to be 37.
Draft age changes throughout history, but the latest I found was 45 during WWI, and 37 during WWII. https://www.the-sun.com/news/4762385/maximum-age-for-us-military-draft/
If you’re young, left-leaning and able-bodied, leave the fucking United States. If you can’t, then waste as much of our Military’s time and money as possible while deployed. You’ll be among friends who all don’t want to be there either.
American tax-payers fund the US military and similar.
I don’t know what trench I’ll end up in if I get drafted. Greenland? Canada? Panama? Iran?
L.A.
Or any of several major U.S. cities, all of them very blue.
Too soon
I hope Iran. I think they’ve got the best food of the options on offer. Plus, no cold winters!
If I have to bludgeon you to death for the last tin of beans in a radioactive wasteland, its nothing personal.
Irans government will implode, nobody will need to be deployed there.
Yeah, cause governments tend to implode when the countries arch enemy attacks them…
Hamas hasn’t even imploded, and the people have way more reason to blame them for their current situation than the Iranians can blame their government for pursuing a nuclear program that most of the country agreed with.
No matter how unpopular a government is there, they’re still going to be more popular than Israel, and people will rally around any flag to fight their flagrant aggression.
The Iranian protests against their Supreme Leader dwarfed the Gazan protests against Hamas.
The dynamics are way different.
Fuck Israel and all, but Iran is far too weak to retaliate in a meaningful way and start ww3
World War 6?
I know they’ve tried but does Iran really have any viable nuclear capability? Or is it just like Iraq where the hydro-electric aluminium tubes are justification?
They have the capability but they’re not there yet. They’re trying to get there, but every time they make progress Israel bombs them back to square. It’s been an effective strategy to stall Iran’s ability to get nukes.
I mean it’s some pretty serious overstepping… Nobody even does that to North Korea, even though they get ever closer to developing a ballistic missile, something capable of delivering a nuke (which they do have). But nobody is bombing NK… Why? Because that’s a fucking act of war!
Bombing Iranian facilities is just an egregious breach of their sovereignty. If on the other hand, some country tried that against the US, it would be a major international incident as soon as they crossed into our airspace, regardless of whether they deployed a single munition. But if they did hit a target, a completely unproportional retaliatory bombing campaign would ensue.
And the only reason Israel gets away with this dangerously aggressive behavior is that they have the military might of the US at their back. They believe they’re untouchable because they assume the US will always be an ally. And truth be told, it’s all a terrible policy for their own longevity. Some day, eventually, we’ll have a president with a conscience and a Congress that supports them, and then we’ll stop giving weapons to Israel. And on that day Israel will finally have to take responsibility for their actions, and we’ll see what their neighbors really think of them. Until then, they continue to dig themselves into a deeper hole, convinced that it’s the safest way forward.
Why are you confidently spouting nonsense all over the place? When has Israel bombed an Iranian nuclear site, ever? When you say “every time they make progress Israel bombs them”, you should be able to at least name a couple of times that has happened, right? Come on, look it up, you should be able to find at least one case. No? Stop spreading info you’ve pulled out of your rectum, people like you are the reason nothing online can be trusted. It’s poison, so please stfu when you have no idea what you’re talking about. This doesn’t make you sound smart, it makes you a nuisance.
Did you read the article you’re commenting on?
When has Israel bombed an Iranian nuclear site, ever?
Bro you need to read the news before you go off XD
They been killing nuclear scientist fo two decade
Are you certain that Iran isn’t developing nukes?
From what I’ve heard, their strategy has been to stall at being 6 months away from a bomb. They could’ve finished their program a while ago if they wanted to, North Korea did it with far less resources. They don’t do it because:
- It puts them in the dangerous MAD nuclear game theory with Israel
- It would make them into a pariah state like North Korea and close off any possibility of sanctions relief.
They still want to be somewhat ready though for situations like this where full scale war with Israel is inevitable so if they can survive the war for 6 months they can do a test, establish nuclear sovereignty and get Israel to back off.
That’s a really interesting theory, I think it has a lot of merit.
Honestly though, they should probably just complete the project. i’d bet Israel’s whole attitude would shift once they actually had nukes.
Existing is justification. Anything to keep the illiterate masses cowed.
Let’s not make them out to be saints, either. They’re very squarely aligned witb China and Russia.
To be fair, they really don’t have any other option. They’ve already made the US a long-term enemy both culturally and politically, and, despite that, Iran still seeks to be a key geopolitical player. There aren’t many other avenues for that in the short term, which is all that usually matters for a dictatorship.
Things will be shaking up in the next few years, so let’s see whether they’ll continue to be perceived as antagonistic to the world at large as the US shifts into goblin mode and khamenei kicks the bucket, hopefully loosening oppression.
The west made iran their enemy by backing up the shah just because they wanted to nationalize oil
Building Nuclear Weapons solve exactly zero of their problems. Just look at North Korea as an example. I also don’t really like the prospects of another civil war in the Middle East.
Iran’s core problem in Geopolitics, lack of foreign investment despite an increasingly educated population, is due to their own underinvestment in agriculture and stifled private-sector growth due to government corruption and collusion. Most of their exports are oil and gas in most years. They recently had a multiple year recession where GDP continuously shrank.
Compare them to other middle eastern regions like Afghanistan which provides the majority of the world’s real Saffron and a hefty sum of Gold, Turkey which exports Cars, or Syria which exports Olive Oil. Iran has the climate and resources to expand and diversify in a lot of sectors but instead it continues to cut government subsidies and increase taxes, it’s just not sustainable.
I honestly don’t know enough about economics to dispute anything you’ve said. I will point out that this dispute is nearly entirely unrelated to nuclear capabilities, though. Were both Israel and Iran to both disarm their nuclear capabilities, they’d both still seek to tear into one another for a host of theology-adjacent reasons.
Wow, way to try to sound educated while just pulling stuff out of your ass. Under investment in agriculture? Lol. Afghanistan is the major supplier of saffron that Iran should learn from? How about Iran being the producer of close to 90 percent of the total global production. Spreading fake info poisons the information on Lemmy for all. Truly pathetic behavior.
Since you don’t know how to cite sources, the citation on Wikipedia says a BBC article claims Iran produces 90% of the world’s supply but due to sanctions due to their geopolitics and nuclear weaponization project it gets repackaged and sold as products of other countries like Spain, which would probably contribute to my being misinformed if true.
However I am not pulling anything out of my ass, Iran cut many former Agriculture Subsidies in the last decade, likely due to the aforementioned sanctions not allowing them to actually sell the product directly.
