It’s actually disheartening that all communist countries become authoritarian. Theoretically with flat power structure, they should all become democracies. Maybe they ARE not communists.
I mean, what we call “communist countries” were really founded with communism as an ideal and authoritarianism as the means to supposedly achieve that ideal. turns out the people they put in power to liberate them didn’t want to give up that power willingly. shocker.
Everything we’ve seen thus far is socialism with a siege mentality. Every socialist revolution in the world has been attacked by capitalism through espionage, sabotage, embargoes, sanctions leading to resistance groups, assassinations and coups. Michael Parenti explains it quite well.
Good thing that under the words communism and democracy, there are pictures that give you the context. Which allows you to understand that the actual comparison is between Marxism-Leninism (which are the majority of communist states) and representative democratic constitutional republic (which are the majority of democracies).
Okay, quick question: In your meme, would you say the picture description on the right is something advocating for democracy? (Although democracy in of itself has basically nothing to do with that wall imo)
I honestly wonder where the hate for communism comes from. Yes, the stereotypical historical examples were disasters. But as others here have mentioned, the problems in these systems were not rooted in a communist economical system (which there also wasn’t really). And assuming educated people should be able to differentiate between these I can only suspect the capitalism-blue-pill.
And to illustrate further I’d like to quote my very wise and definetely NOT communist literature teacher: In heaven there’s communism. I think that dums it up nicely. If you sant to hate something, don’t hate the idea, it in itself is pure and you’re making a fool of yourself if you didn’t wish for it in a perfect world. Hate the realisations? Maybe, but also noone seriously tried yet…
But if one just hates on it for the sake of having an “enemy” in turn validating the system oneself is a part of, that’s just a lack of reflection and critical thinking. Capitalism does not work and we’d see it everywhere we look if we wanted to. We just can’t imagine any other system anymore and that is the trap our society has fallen into. Blind religious belief in a economical system (ridiculous by itself, I might add). Let’s atleast try alternatives or compromises before we finish burning down our planet.
Also: I love democracy, fix democracy first. Priority number one.
Ill respond honestly even though I did make fun of tankies not realising this is a shitposting community.
The problem with capitalism is the same as with communism. Corruption, Cronyism, Nepotism, Greed and Dishonesty. People preaching for communism point at those things in capitalism and act like communism wont have the exact same bad actors trying to game the system.
No there hasnt been a modern attempt at communism because past versions were such SPECTACULAR failures (admittedly mostly for reasons that arent actually related to the system of governance) that the well is poisoned. If you cant convince people that masks prevent the spread of disease when its a scientifically verifiable fact you arent going to convince them that communism is viable when it has historically speaking always collapsed or morphed into totalitarian capitalism.
The first video is a list and the next few go into detail about individual projects. This is an ongoing series.
The reason you don’t hear about these like you heard about the USSR or the CCP is because they are doing good things and not turning on their own people, so they don’t make good capitalist propaganda, so instead they stay off the radar. That to me means they’re doing the right thing.
There are thousands of projects you don’t hear about because people that aren’t trying to replace the old boss with the new boss aren’t trying to get your attention. They’re doing the work to make an alternative system that doesn’t get crushed by reactionaries.
Projects and communities arent nation spanning governments. The larger the system the more rife for abuse.
I dont dispute that it COULD work, but I do think that its a bit disingenuous to act like people arent gonna people and its going to be a magical utopia. If we could stop greedy assholes capitalism wouldnt be as bad as it is.
Rojava covers millions of people and does not have a state to speak of. It is a federation. They have no leader.
People will people, but creating power structures that work to counter hierarchies of dominance is how you stop people from being systemically abusive. The idea that bad people exist shouldn’t encourage people to create hierarchies that empower a small group of people to abuse the rest of us, especially when we already know that those hierarchies attract abusers.
The idea that hierarchies are necessary past a certain size is meaningless. Either it’s wrong and we can get rid of them, or it’s right and we’d never know. It’s unknowable if true. You are just stuck in the mental trap of hierarchical realism.
I like this quote, for a few reasons. Namely, Heaven is not real, and since “communism has never been tried” as “all states that did try stopped in the autocratic phase neglecting to dismantle themselves,” and that is almost certainly the outcome that would happen if anyone ever tried anywhere again, communism is effectively not real either. They’re both unachievable utopian concepts that offer simply “hope” more than anything concrete.
Furthermore if heaven was real, I’m not 100% sure it’s not an autocratic “benevolent dictatorship” ran by God and his Angel literal soldiers. It really does seem analogous to communism as practiced. Can you go against God in heaven or would you be cast down to hell with the other political dissidents in a heavenly holodomor?
Heaven is anarchy: everyone does what they want, which is to be good and helpful to each other.
Heaven is a (benevolent?) dictatorship: everyone does what God wants, which happens to coincide with their desires.
Heaven is communism: everyone helps each other and has access to the same resources, although since a lack of scarcity is implied, this may not require helping each other out in material means.
Heaven probably isn’t capitalism: given a lack of scarcity, communal access to resources, and everyone having their own housing, organized trade of any kind seems kind of pointless.
Heaven probably isn’t a democracy: if everyone agrees on the major issues, why would you vote on them? That said, everyone in heaven chose to be there, so that’s the one vote you get.
Note the 3 underlying issues in each of those. Similarity of goals, which isn’t going to happen anytime soon; people putting the common good before themselves, which likely won’t happen until…; and a lack of scarcity, which won’t happen until certain currently-unlikely events occur.
Ah yes, communism and democracy, directly comparable and not at all describing totally different things in different categories
It’s actually disheartening that all communist countries become authoritarian. Theoretically with flat power structure, they should all become democracies. Maybe they ARE not communists.
I mean, what we call “communist countries” were really founded with communism as an ideal and authoritarianism as the means to supposedly achieve that ideal. turns out the people they put in power to liberate them didn’t want to give up that power willingly. shocker.
Everything we’ve seen thus far is socialism with a siege mentality. Every socialist revolution in the world has been attacked by capitalism through espionage, sabotage, embargoes, sanctions leading to resistance groups, assassinations and coups. Michael Parenti explains it quite well.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Michael Parenti
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Good thing that under the words communism and democracy, there are pictures that give you the context. Which allows you to understand that the actual comparison is between Marxism-Leninism (which are the majority of communist states) and representative democratic constitutional republic (which are the majority of democracies).
Those two things don’t get along very well.
Okay, quick question: In your meme, would you say the picture description on the right is something advocating for democracy? (Although democracy in of itself has basically nothing to do with that wall imo)
I guess I agree that this wall has nothing to do with any form of democracy or communism. Just wanted to be edgy and post something against ML.
I honestly wonder where the hate for communism comes from. Yes, the stereotypical historical examples were disasters. But as others here have mentioned, the problems in these systems were not rooted in a communist economical system (which there also wasn’t really). And assuming educated people should be able to differentiate between these I can only suspect the capitalism-blue-pill.
And to illustrate further I’d like to quote my very wise and definetely NOT communist literature teacher: In heaven there’s communism. I think that dums it up nicely. If you sant to hate something, don’t hate the idea, it in itself is pure and you’re making a fool of yourself if you didn’t wish for it in a perfect world. Hate the realisations? Maybe, but also noone seriously tried yet…
But if one just hates on it for the sake of having an “enemy” in turn validating the system oneself is a part of, that’s just a lack of reflection and critical thinking. Capitalism does not work and we’d see it everywhere we look if we wanted to. We just can’t imagine any other system anymore and that is the trap our society has fallen into. Blind religious belief in a economical system (ridiculous by itself, I might add). Let’s atleast try alternatives or compromises before we finish burning down our planet.
Also: I love democracy, fix democracy first. Priority number one.
Thank you for coming to my tedtalk
Ill respond honestly even though I did make fun of tankies not realising this is a shitposting community.
The problem with capitalism is the same as with communism. Corruption, Cronyism, Nepotism, Greed and Dishonesty. People preaching for communism point at those things in capitalism and act like communism wont have the exact same bad actors trying to game the system.
No there hasnt been a modern attempt at communism because past versions were such SPECTACULAR failures (admittedly mostly for reasons that arent actually related to the system of governance) that the well is poisoned. If you cant convince people that masks prevent the spread of disease when its a scientifically verifiable fact you arent going to convince them that communism is viable when it has historically speaking always collapsed or morphed into totalitarian capitalism.
Modern socialist/communist projects that do not create states to be corrupted:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvwoHdNGq9wUbrwTZ2k8yXE5oABPBQ4NX
The first video is a list and the next few go into detail about individual projects. This is an ongoing series.
The reason you don’t hear about these like you heard about the USSR or the CCP is because they are doing good things and not turning on their own people, so they don’t make good capitalist propaganda, so instead they stay off the radar. That to me means they’re doing the right thing.
There are thousands of projects you don’t hear about because people that aren’t trying to replace the old boss with the new boss aren’t trying to get your attention. They’re doing the work to make an alternative system that doesn’t get crushed by reactionaries.
Projects and communities arent nation spanning governments. The larger the system the more rife for abuse.
I dont dispute that it COULD work, but I do think that its a bit disingenuous to act like people arent gonna people and its going to be a magical utopia. If we could stop greedy assholes capitalism wouldnt be as bad as it is.
Where did I say magical utopia?
Rojava covers millions of people and does not have a state to speak of. It is a federation. They have no leader.
People will people, but creating power structures that work to counter hierarchies of dominance is how you stop people from being systemically abusive. The idea that bad people exist shouldn’t encourage people to create hierarchies that empower a small group of people to abuse the rest of us, especially when we already know that those hierarchies attract abusers.
The idea that hierarchies are necessary past a certain size is meaningless. Either it’s wrong and we can get rid of them, or it’s right and we’d never know. It’s unknowable if true. You are just stuck in the mental trap of hierarchical realism.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/playlist?list=PLvwoHdNGq9wUbrwTZ2k8yXE5oABPBQ4NX
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I like this quote, for a few reasons. Namely, Heaven is not real, and since “communism has never been tried” as “all states that did try stopped in the autocratic phase neglecting to dismantle themselves,” and that is almost certainly the outcome that would happen if anyone ever tried anywhere again, communism is effectively not real either. They’re both unachievable utopian concepts that offer simply “hope” more than anything concrete.
Furthermore if heaven was real, I’m not 100% sure it’s not an autocratic “benevolent dictatorship” ran by God and his Angel literal soldiers. It really does seem analogous to communism as practiced. Can you go against God in heaven or would you be cast down to hell with the other political dissidents in a heavenly holodomor?
I lived in socialism/communism (depending om who talks about it). After having experienced it, I’m definitely not wishing it back.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to link @Dessalines
Michael Parenti refutes this sentiment in Blackshirts and Reds, with citations.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
@Dessalines
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Heaven is anarchy: everyone does what they want, which is to be good and helpful to each other.
Heaven is a (benevolent?) dictatorship: everyone does what God wants, which happens to coincide with their desires.
Heaven is communism: everyone helps each other and has access to the same resources, although since a lack of scarcity is implied, this may not require helping each other out in material means.
Heaven probably isn’t capitalism: given a lack of scarcity, communal access to resources, and everyone having their own housing, organized trade of any kind seems kind of pointless.
Heaven probably isn’t a democracy: if everyone agrees on the major issues, why would you vote on them? That said, everyone in heaven chose to be there, so that’s the one vote you get.
Note the 3 underlying issues in each of those. Similarity of goals, which isn’t going to happen anytime soon; people putting the common good before themselves, which likely won’t happen until…; and a lack of scarcity, which won’t happen until certain currently-unlikely events occur.