If you are for Musk being tracked, you should be fine with her being tracked the same way.
I’m for anyone in a private jet being tracked.
I’m for no one having a private jet.
The solution is obvious.
Stop owning private jets.
Billionaires threatening, harassing, and intimidating normal people with their army of lawyers and sycophant fans is never okay.
Fuck Taylor Swift and every other rich piece of shit.
But flight data is available - this guy just labels her N number and filters the data in a creepy way. I get that it’s probably causing her danger to have stalkers waiting at the destination for her - but those stalkers always had access to this flight data.
Seems like a workaround for Taylor would be to not own a plane and charter a different one every time. (Or do something actually environmentally minded :/)
How is it creepy? It’s activism.
This person is a hell of a lot more useful to the world than some billionaire piece of shit.
Just because it’s done to a woman it’s suddenly “creepy”. Don’t think anyone ever called that guy creepy when it was done to Elon.
But flight data is available - this guy just labels her N number and filters the data in a creepy way. I get that it’s probably causing her danger to have stalkers waiting at the destination for her - but those stalkers always had access to this flight data.
Well, yes, but I think we can at least acknowledge when public information is used to harass. Home addresses are identifiable via public tax records, but it would obviously be different if someone posted your home address and reported in real time whether or not you’re inside. We all know people actively want to stalk and harass her, and anyone making it easier to do so maybe shouldn’t, even though it’s technically legal. If someone drove around and picked up everyone who has explicitly said they’d like to rape or kill her, and dropped them off at her doorstep with knives and guns, I hope we’d all agree that’s pretty fucked up and shouldn’t be condoned.
It’s a bit like the difference between having a gun stolen out of a safe and having a gun stolen out of an unlocked car that was left parked overnight in a crowded shopping mall. Yeah, the direct culprit might have stolen it one way or another, but there’s also at least some culpability for the person who made it easy for them to steal it, and potentially later inflict harm. I’m not saying Sweeney should be charged with a crime, of course, but doxxing is poor form for a very good reason, and civil suits can be brought for all kinds of harm (direct or indirect) which are caused by actions that are otherwise legal. In the age of worldwide social media, these are boundaries that we can discuss with nuance, rather than dismissing them out of hand because the rules currently allow unfettered abuse.
If it’s not safe for people to use publicly available information then it shouldn’t be publicly available. No one was worried about it when it was used to call Musk out. Or the 1000s of people dealing with stalkers that aren’t famous enough for anyone to give a fuck about. Either protect everyone or don’t. You can’t just single out the rich white girls.
I didn’t. Who are you arguing against?
My point is just going after this guy isn’t going to fix the root of the problem. If him being able to do this is an issue then the information he is accessing should be restricted. Just making him stop won’t prevent the next person from doing it to someone else.
I don’t disagree. He’s already had his Swift-specific accounts booted from Facebook, Instagram, and Xitter and started posting instead to his “Celeb Jets” FB and IG accounts, so it’s clear he’s going to play the cat-and-mouse game indefinitely.
But again, I didn’t say a single thing about singling out rich white girls. That was a strawman you made up out of whole cloth.
That was meant more as a general statement to all the people who are up in arms about this but were jerking themselves off when it happened to musk a while back.
The federal government will take publicly available information and if it is bundled up with enough other information it is still considered classified and you can still (if you hold any sort of clearance) be in trouble for sharing that classified bundle.
Which is just to say there is legal precedent agreeing with your point, although AFAIK that responsibility only applies to folks who have already agreed to responsibly handle confidential information.
Yeah I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss harm avoidance here. There are likely workarounds she can employ, but it’s sad that people seem to be taking the stance that “fuck her, it’s public” is the end of the conversation. Maybe her lawyers know something we don’t about what kind of harm this is actually causing. It’s easy to cheer for Sweeney when he’s giving the middle finger to a jackass like Elon Musk, but I find it harder to stand in his “I do it because fuck you” corner when he’s weaponizing information against others who aren’t huge assholes.
Speech is protected, but threats are not. Online shit talking is protected, but cyberbullying is widely condemned. As a society we need to figure out where the line is between what’s allowable and what’s highly discouraged. “It’s legal” isn’t a useful cut off for these kinds of discussions, because we’ve recently come up with all kinds of state laws to punish stalkers when their behavior crosses the line from benign to unwelcome to harmful. Stalkers can be held criminally liable for using telephone calls, letters, telegraphs, delivery of packages or engaging in any conduct which interferes or intrudes on another’s privacy or liberty, all of which are completely legal and acceptable behaviors except when they’re employed to threaten or harass.
I always figured the point of tracking her, just like Musk, was commentary on the incredible waste that is the private jet industry. The politics of the person matter far less than the environmental consequences of their actions.
I don’t disagree, but if obsessed incels are using this to assist in stalking and harassing her and it poses an immediate risk to her safety, then it obviously takes on a more immediate meaning than whether or not people can use it to shame her for being environmentally reckless.
Obsessed incels have been and will be stalking no matter if there’s flight data or not. This isn’t about that.
They will, and it is. That doesn’t mean we should willingly and gleefully make it easier for them to inflict harm.
I agree, I think you’re being down voted by the people who cheered on the Elon musk tracking kid. Sure it might be legal but I think everyone can all agree they wouldn’t want this done to themselves.
99.999 percent of us here would never have this problem because we will never be close to owning a private jet, even if we wanted to for some reason. I also think most of us here agree that owning a private jet is selfish, and since its kind of a problem brought on by her own selfishness, it’s kind of hard to feel bad for her.
People who don’t have private jets get doxxed and harassed all the time because this story or that went viral. If you made a boneheaded comment to someone on the street that was recorded and uploaded, and the internet mob came for your blood, and someone made it their own personal mission to track your every move 24 hours a day, some of us would come to your defense and suggest that they might should stop for your safety. The rest of the mob would take the, “fuck you, it’s public” line you’re taking, and you’d probably have a hard time convincing them to give a shit.
“We want the artist to perform near us, all of us,but we don’t want them to be on planes in a way that makes that possible.”
There are plenty of ways to get someplace that don’t involve owning your own personal jet.
I don’t care if she tours or not, but I know for a fact my favorite bands either rent a bus or fly commercial.
There’s a difference between the data being available and it being broadcasted, which is probably what her argument would attempt to stand on if it went to court
But data brokers are doing this to all of us, all the time.
There is also a difference between paywalling info behind a company that only three letter agencies and targeting advertising firms will even know the name of most of the time, and broadcasting that information on social media.
Why should corporate entities get to stalk you more successfully or more permissively than anyone else?
They shouldn’t, but they also use a method that’s a lot more tedious and annoying for a rando to use than just being able to see it on Twitter, which is like, 99% of the definition of “more secure”
Fuck billionaires
Didn’t the richest person in the world try to do this exact same thing? I’m still convinced it’s the reason he bought Twitter. Those flight logs are public information because they prevent mid air collisions, your not going to change that. No one is going to be putting military grade radar equipment on a Boeing 757 if they can’t even stop the doors from opening mid flight.
Those flight logs are public information because they prevent mid air collisions, your not going to change that.
One way to prevent being personally identified is to not fly around in your own personal jet and use one of the many other available options that aren’t trackable this way.
Several points:
-
Lots of information is public, such as your address. That doesn’t mean somebody explicitly publishing your address for the purpose of harassing you isn’t committing an offence.
-
Some celebrities can’t fly on passenger planes for their own safety and even that of others or the proper functioning of infrastructure. Can you imagine Taylor Swift trying to fly on a public carrier? She would get mobbed at the very least. At worst she might be putting her health or even her life in danger. Especially now that the MAGA morons are attacking her.
I find Taylor Swift bland as beige, I don’t get the appeal at all, and I think Musk is a rabid twatwaffle. I also don’t believe anyone should really get to be so wealthy. Still, there are good reasons why one might need to travel by private means without their movements being broadcast.
My friend met Hugh Jackman on Eurostar, he seems pretty chill. Didn’t get mobbed at all.
You’re comparing Taylor Swift to Hugh Jackman?
I mean, if I had the choice of meeting one of them, I’d 100% pick Hugh Jackman. By all accounts, the dude is a genuinely cool guy.
True true, I would be way more starstruck meeting Wolverine
-
Her lawyers must be crazy to think they can get anything done that elon couldn’t. Taylor should be mad at her PR for not stopping her if she asked for this personally.
As for private jets. People with wealth, use that wealth to find an alternative. God knows you haven’t found anything else to do with it.
Edit: Also, please let it be zeppelin technology.
Dude dirigibles are STUPID EFFICIENT because they don’t have to fly. They just float so you only need some tiny little fans to move them in the direction you like. I really do wish they’d come back
Airships; When you want to be as fast as an ocean liner, as cheap as an airplane, and as subtle as a train.
Hello, airplanes? It’s blimps, you win!
For the last time! It’s filled with HELIUUUUUUUUM…
Jesus, what are you still not getting about that? Umm core concept?
Alright you’ve been on a roll lately Swifty, but imma call you out; transponders are public information.
Yeah, she’s generally a decent person, but she’s just in the wrong here.
She’s generally good at managing her public persona, except when it comes to her
pollute more than a small city machineprivate jet addiction. When people show you who they really are, believe them.She also showed who she really was during the SAG-AFTRA and WGA strikes: someone who agrees to union demands, which was why she was allowed to release the best-selling concert movie of all time during the middle of the strikes.
On top of that, she got thousands of her fans registered to vote.
People are complicated.
which was why she was allowed to release the best-selling concert movie of all time during the middle of the strikes.
When you put it like that, it doesn’t really sound like she was doing it out of the goodness of her heart.
Because she knew beforehand how it would do?
Yeah, I imagine she had someone crunch the numbers and figure out that it’s worth it to agree to the union’s demands to get a premiere in the middle of the strike AND the good PR. Sounds like a pretty safe bet.
Now mind you, I don’t really know anything about the situation beyond what I read in your comment. I don’t know what movie that was and I’m only somewhat aware there was a big strike in the entertainment industry in the USA. Just little pieces I caught here on Lemmy and maybe back on reddit too. I’m not claiming to have any particular insight into her motivations or anything, just that what you presented as her good side sounds very much like business acumen to me rather than philantropy.
Maybe I’m just a cynic.
I mean, just because she benefited doesn’t mean hundreds of others also didn’t.
Sure, I’m not saying it’s wrong what she did, just that it’s not a good way to judge her character.
Its a bit more complicated than that.
Traffic cameras are usually publicly accessible. You are also, generally, allowed to take pictures of people when they are in public spaces where there is not an expectation of privacy.
So at what point of this is the line crossed?
- Seb in space’s car was spotted driving down Main Street at 4:13 pm on Tuesday
- Seb in space was next seen on 1st street at 4:15 pm
- …
- Seb in space was next seen turning off into the Hairy Palms apartment complex at 9:12 pm on Tuesday
- Seb in space was seen leaving the Hairy Palms apartment complex at 06:00 on Wednesday
That is where this gets pretty murky. Because we all more or less acknowledge that parparazzi taking pictures of everyone leaving an airport are assholes (unless it is about figuring out if The Rock is going to come do PR to distract people from the WWE sexual slavery scandal…). But we have no issue with knowing that without even needing to send someone over to see who got off the 1235 LAX->DFW flight.
And while my initial stance is “fuck the super-rich”: I am allegedly part of a private chat for “people in tech” to give each other a heads up if we see a CEO getting off a flight. Because if your boss is pretty regularly visiting Facebook HQ and not telling anyone? That is the sign that you need to refresh your CV because you might get layed off after an acquisition/merger. There are definitely business reasons for not making it trivial to track individuals.
So yeah. I am going to side on the stance of “if you need to travel secretly, wear sunglasses like the rest of us”. Or, if you are too famous to even risk that, at least use one of the private jet companies rather than owning your own. But I also think this is something that we need to actually consider from a legal and privacy standpoint and it is a lot more complex than that.
I don’t think your analogy works, because, as long as you know the plane’s identifier, you can just type it into a website and see where it is.
That’s all you have to do.
How do you get that identifier for Taylor Swift’s plane? That part I don’t know and maybe that part is where her case lies, but I have a feeling she has no case or Musk would have tried the same thing.
Anyone can write a trivially simple program to analyze license plates (or even car profiles) and feed it traffic cam footage. I’ve done that for poops and giggles (never pushed since it was sketchy). Have broadband and a few medium sized computers and you can process the entirety of a state’s traffic cameras. At which point, it is trivial to track 455M4N’s '92 buick.
Where can I find live traffic cameras with high enough resolution to read license plates? I’ve only seen traffic cameras with something like 320x240 max.
You know how back in the day, Mythbusters would joke about “adding blah”? Or how a lot of chemistry and engineering youtubers won’t provide the exact specifics once they start working with a gun or something meth adjacent?
Its one of those things where if you have the basic understanding of how these systems work, you can find it pretty trivially (or work around things). And if you don’t? Then you really don’t need to know.
That’s a lot of words to avoid saying you’re talking out your ass.
“Yeah, I could totally tell you. Honest. Promise. No I can’t because… uh… I’d have to kill you.”
I see absolutely nothing wrong with any of that info being presented in that way
Woman who made over a billion being a public figure upset she is now a public figure.
Sorry, no privacy for private jets. I don’t care about the “danger.” She can fly commercial in business class or first class if she wants privacy.
Her Grammy speech was literally “I love doing this, thank you for giving me the opportunity to do what I love.”
Bitch, if you don’t want people to track you then fly first class.
They can charter jets and travel in greater luxury without having a tail number assigned to them personally. When I become a multibillionaire I will charter jets.
My step father is a private plane pilot.He owns the plane and rich people pay him to fly them places.
You’re right, rich people like Swift don’t need to own a jet themselves. It’s very easy to find jets to charter and likely cheaper because you’re not paying to maintain a plane.
So she can stop complaining about her silver spoon not being polished enough.
I disagree with the use of “Florida Student” when “Florida Man” would have been a better title
It’s public information. If you have a problem then stop flying around in your fancy fucking jet.
God damn rich people. Fuck em all.
it’s literally delayed by 24 hours so that it’s not a security risk for her. The only reason they’re sharing it is to raise awareness about insane fuel consumption for example when she flies from one side of St. Louis to the other (and back), burning hundreds of gallons of jet fuel for what should have been a 30 minute drive
I’m on team Florida student.
Put simply, there are no “good billionaires”.
If this one action makes her a bad person, then there are no good people, which then of course would mean there are no good billionaires.
“that one action” lol
She is basically the worst case of private jet usage and leading the list of such individuals, while somehow advocating for the environment.
This is just ridiculous.
And she is trying to fuck that guy up for “stalking” and “harassment”, just for showing public data.
On top, for whatever reason, she had 2 private jets flying around until now. Seems like she sold one this month.
I’m don’t want to defend her use of a private her, but it seems like a ridiculous puritan test if that this makes her a bad human.
Just such an incredibly weird statement to make that Taylor Swift of all people is the threshold for finding any good in the world, and if she’s not it then no one is.
This is not at all what I said. I said the metric used here to paint Taylor Swift as a bad person requires a level of pureness that would mean pretty much everyone is a bad person.
I have no idea whether she is a good perspn, but I do know that “she flies in a private jet and her lawyers sued someone because they claim it is a threat to her safety… So she’s a bad person!” Is a terrible argument.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
We all suck, there’s no good in humans. Maybe we should stop looking at humans, dogs might be a good place to start after all the comments I’ve heard about us not deserving them.
The irony of “all billionaires bad” is that Taylor Swift earned that money through album sales and live touring. She wasn’t actively exploiting the labor of workers in order to be rich, she is just that popular.
And before everyone jumps down my ass about my opinion sounding too conservative for Lemmy, I invite you to check out my post history.
The thousands of people making those records sell and shows happen:
There is no self made billionaire, a billion is an absurd amount of wealth a singular person cannot actually earn or be worth.
“To make apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe” ~Carl Sagan
People payed $2,000 a ticket to see Taylor perform… that was their decision.
He’s talking about all the people working at the label and concert agency. Do you think the technicians and riggers whot take care of all the audio, light and show effects get more money at her concerts? What about the people doing the security, check-in, cleaning and so on?
Try having a concert without any of these. There is hundreds of people working to make stadion concerts happen.
… they do that for all the acts… doesn’t have much to do with how rich any particular performer is.
Your arguement was, she wouldn’t exploit other peoples labor. But in fact she does very much so.
She would be nothing without the labor of all those people, yet they see scarps of what she makes.
She has a specific reputation for supporting the workers who work her shows.
it absolutely does. every single worker that works under any labor agreement is making less than what their labor is worth. capitalism only works when you can make money off of how much someone is worth and not pay them the full amount. there is no incentive in capitalism to pay people what they are truly worth because that would mean no profit. she also profits off of countless years of technological advancements made by underpaid workers that allow her to have the production value and presence she has. i really find it hard to believe that people can’t just see the plainness of how this labor thing works. why would anyone start a business if they couldnt profit off of their workers?
She wasn’t actively exploiting the labor of workers in order to be rich
White feminist privilege detected.
Seems like generic billionaire privilege to me
It’s the same thing.
What does fEmInIsT have to do with anything? Was elon musk a feminist when he did this or…?
What does fEmInIsT have to do with anything?
That’s exactly the point. She (and her legion of zombies) will cry misogyny and claim to be victim even when it isn’t true.
At no point have you neared a coherent thought
If you’re having difficulty to parse two sentences that I have written then I don’t know what else to say.
But I can’t dumb it down to bring it to your level.
I’m guessing you have used the term “feminazi” more than a few times. Not understanding your weird issue with women is not a loss for me.
Especially now with newspapers reporting that Taylor Swift is seen as a ‘danger to Republican norms’ (per USA TODAY copy, Feb 2 - 4), this is an especially dangerous position to put her in. Republicans are starting to claim she is swaying the country away from their “values” (whatever those might be) and they are looking at her as an enemy of our country.
So the person doing this might have innocent motives, but it could lead to horribly disastrous results, and he could also be jailed for doing this. So I’m glad she’s taking some legal action up front if only to protect herself and show that she is unwilling to be made a victim of other people’s nutjob bigotry.
We may have reached peak Taylor now that she is making a show of dating that football player. She intrigued me for a while but now I mostly cringe.
Yeah I don’t really know anything about her except her music isn’t really my thing. I recently gave it another shot but every song felt kinda ragey and judgey in an unexpected way. It falls in this “quite literal but somehow unclear and never abstract” style of songwriting that to me is… yeah, cringey.
Her music never did much for me but that’s fine, that’s just me. But I heard she was supposed to be a good lyricist. It seemed to me she had some sharp lines here and there, with filler in between. I was more interested in her persona and how she hit back against the record labels and movie studios. She did a good job of that.
Yeah. Re-recording her album after the record label fucked her over was a genius and commendable move
he could also be jailed for doing this
My fucking ass lmao. It’s public information being posted on a public forum with no call to action whatsoever.
WRONG, asshole - it is NOT the public right to put someone in danger, and it never will be. And they’ve just posted on the national news that this person IS likely going to jail, so you’re wrong about that also. DUMBASS!!!
Dude made, essentially, a data visualization tool.
No more and no less.
If you want the data to be private, go after that. Stand up in front of us all, and argue “private jets deserve the privacy of any one of us”
Taylor Swift is a public figure that lives like royalty. At the level, I don’t think she gets to live normally. This isn’t even her - this is her publicist and/or lawyers, maybe responding to discomfort she’s personally expressed… I doubt she goes anywhere without bodyguards. I doubt she’s in real danger comparable to even most US politicians - the beetles were small time by her standards. She’s a corporation - she’s just the face of something enormous
