“ackshually mobile games don’t count as real games 🤓” - lemmy users
“women avoid me 🤓” - same lemmy users
“ackshually mobile games don’t count as real games 🤓”
Yeah, that is pretty much true. Or at least you should consider the difference between the types of gaming cultures.
Mobile games: There are several studies out about mobile games and the tactics used to keep you playing. This is a very significant difference, as many are pay to win or as a vehicle for ads, so they are designed to keep you playing rather than an end goal. They are convenient and easy to pick up and often used to “kill time”.
Studies have shown a correlation between frustration, loneliness, unsocial behaviours in both sexes for mobile games. In the article they said the women felt guilt and shame, but mobile gaming studies show they are not alone. Although many studies suggest that women play more of these types of games then men, which skews the results.
So I think it is a valid to question the title that uses the phrase “gaming culture” when there is very little “culture” in psychologically driven revenue generators.
Like this comment on hacker news: “…boatload of psychological exploitation tricks that we used to keep people playing (and paying). The game mechanics were literally a rigged slot machine. The meta-game was designed to constantly tantalize you with something just out of reach.”
Just like gambling addiction, a constant dopamine machine will make people feel guilty, irritable, and depressed.
cool opinion, can you run it through one more time and ask for bullet points so I don’t have to read it?
Implying I used AI? I did not. You should know that, the grammar is not very good and I rambled a bit.
The only thing I did do was use duckduckgo to get the quote right if it wasnt as I remembered it.
So do you have anything to say or did you just want to whine about AI?
I couldn’t believe that someone would reply to my stupid comment with that many words so I didn’t read it.
You saw something about women and video games that you could not tolerate, so you constructed a chain of “logic” that:
- gatekept gaming and gaming culture
- tried to remove gender from the equation
- shifted the blame away from something you like (gaming culture)
- shifted the blame onto something you don’t like (mobile games)
- displayed your ignorance about mobile gaming
You’re so smart to realize that this is a simple phenomenon with a neat, tidy, and convenient explanation that doesn’t offend any gamers who don’t like women.
Typical Reddit playbook. I wish your comment was AI.
You didn’t read it. A couple of sentences. Wow. I wrote it for a reason.
Then you made up a bunch of things to claim I was doing, for who knows why.
So, ok you don’t read, you have some weird agenda to have a gotcha moment, you completely dont get why there is a huge difference in the psychology of mobile games then other games, and have no intellectual interest in understanding any of this.
Like you said it was a stupid comment, I guess. I was only hoping to address why that article could have had a lot more to say, and ended up missing the mark.
displayed your ignorance about mobile gaming
Ok enlighten me. I asked a couple of women to read what you wrote, and they find it funny, and disapointing. “what the fuck is he going on about”!
cool story bro
this research is about you
I don’t play these types of games with randos on open mics anymore, but it definitely felt taboo when a girl was speaking. It’s too bad there weren’t just as many to normalize it then everyone would finally hopefully move past it… Maybe?
Do mobile games have voice chats? I’ve never seen one that did.
UK who play mobile games
So not gaming culture.
Shame and exclusion on display. Why do you want to put people down?
lol, wut?
Do you really need that explained to you? The article is about exclusion and shame in the gaming community and you responded in an exclusionary and shameful way.
Excluding and shaming who? Nobody.
I am not convinced that MOBILE GAMING is a culture. Gaming culture typically is not mobile gaming. Or at least it would not be where I would look to have this discussion, and in fact seems to avoid the real issue: online gaming in the popular spaces: xbox, ps2, and PC.
This is pretty clear to anyone who has ever played a game of Counterstrike or whatever and a woman makes the mistake of using voice chat. You’ll get the whole gamut from misogynistic nonsense to the most awkward and creepy attempts to hit on them possible, pretty much every time.
But if you just treat them like normal you can make some good friends. I had a group of women I played CS with for quite a while after playing with them as a random and just treating them like regular people for once.
It takes absolutely nothing to just not act like you’re amazed at talking to a woman. They’re just people trying to have fun in the game, just like you and every other teammate you’ve had. Don’t treat them any differently.
It’s just one joke, over and over again. I’m a guy, but one of the reasons I stopped going to lan parties was hearing this same few jokes again and again whenever a woman showed up. If it wasn’t a woman, it would be something else from the limited number of topics and opinions they had. When it wasn’t frustrating, it was simply boring.
What’s the one joke?
“girls don’t play video games”
Oh, right, THAT one.
Probably “A WOMAN is in the VC? AWOOOGA amirite guys?!?!”
Yeah, except this was irl at a lan part. Where they could see the woman’s lack of response. Whether they came with their boyfriend or alone, they never showed up to a second time.
I only ever really saw the clsssic toxic gamer behavior flourish once most games switched from having private dedicated servers ran by the players that almost always had an admin present to handle toxicity to unmoderated developer hosted servers no players have any bit of control over. Counter-Strike: Source vs CS:GO/CS2 is quite a leap in the general attitude of players you would encounter.
Wild how removing people who managed the player’s behavior makes the bad behavior intensify.
Confirmed. Counterstrike specifically was very inclusive and very open to most players of all ages, demographics, and skill ranges especially compared to other shooters of the 00’s. Then matchmaking and eventually premier got introduced and any chance of moderating the community died and here we are today.
matchmaking killed the fun in so many ways. cs got tryhardy and toxic, but so many multiplayer games are now insufferable because of matchmaking and agressive monetization.
I’m not into gaming, but my wife used to be into it. When we were dating, we’d play call of duty together (side-by-side consoles). She’d get on voice chat, get teased a bit by teenage boys, and then proceed to utterly destroy them. Sometimes they’d scream and curse, accuse her of cheating, accuse her of having a guy play for her (lol her man sucks at this), and so on. She’d just mock them, call them horrible names, and then specifically target and spawn camp the little shits until they rage quit.
It was fucking awesome, and it was alway a laugh riot for the other (more mature, less sexist) folks in the match. I love her so much.
I agree that most competitive games tend to go that way. My ex and I played a lot of League of Legends in a small friend group together (where this did not happen, thank god), and if playing with “externals” it was unbelievable what bullshit she had to deal with. and although most of the time the creeps bit off more than they could chew, it must have felt pretty bad, regardless of what me and our friends did or said.
Anyone with experience in non-competitive game settings to share?
Folks in MMOs tend to be more chill in my experience. In such a large sample of people you’re going to find a few dickbags who think they’re hilarious or the kind who will DM sexual harassment, but the majority of people just do not care and are happy to play the game. Toxicity tends to crop up around entitlement to loot and perceived performance rather than gender.
Maybe in more current MMOs, because back in my WoW days (2013 and earlier), misogyny was rampant
That’s what I mean about the large sample size. It only takes the existence of a single asshole to ruin the experience for a target of harassment or casual phobic comment not even directed at them intentionally. Blizzard won’t ban these people, so they’re allowed to exist in the public chat channels, and they can say pretty much whatever the hell they want.
But what I mean is most people do not side with them. An asshole will drop a transphobic comment specifically because they know most people will take offense and argue with them. The general advice is to disable public communication and stick to organizing via guilds and Discord servers which are actually moderated. If the game were a democracy, those people would punished and/or removed.
I suspect the environment is different depending on the game. I never witnessed any of that in overwatch back when I used to play for instance. Though I pretty much never play multiplayer games without at least one friend so the numbers are skewed a bit by having at least 2 non-weirdos on the team
I don’t doubt this but now I’m really curious about the numbers. Is it the same on PC? How do women’s experience compare to other genders in similar surveys?
For how other genders fair, it’s almost entirely dependent on your voice, so feminine sounding people almost certainly get the same treatment, and masculine sounding people just get treated like normal.
“Researchers surveyed 1,000 women of all ages across the UK who play mobile games.”
Shows a picture of a woman holding what appears to be a PS4 controller.
Poifect.
I think it’s a black PS5 controller. No light.
Trackpad looked wrong is why I went PS4, but yeah you’re probably right.
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She should be holding a mobile phone. because that is what mobile gaming mostly looks like.
i use a controller for when I play my mobile games. did you know you can use controllers with bluetooth now?
you’re not limited to just touch screens like the first days of android apps.
we have come a long way since then. good luck!
edit: here for those interested.
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Competitive gaming is a cesspool regardless of gender but I feel for women who have to deal with sexism on top of the default toxicity. Hopefully things will improve over time but i don’t have high hope for the near future sadly
This study has nothing to do with that. It only surveyed mobile gaming.
I read somewhere that “Dead by Daylight” has a (relatively) high percentage of women, because there’s zero voice chat.
It’s not a voice chat problem, you can always turn voice/text chat off. That’s not the reason some games have a relatively higher percentage of women.
It was the reason I started playing it.
It’s one of the first things I bring up when recommending it to other women who aren’t playing online multiplayer games usually.
Most women I know who play it don’t play any other multiplayer games online, at least none with VC.
Games with VC usually do have the option to turn it off, but doing so you’ll have less information than players who use it. You’ll be a detriment to your team if they would otherwise have had efficient comms. You are turning off a feature, where the game is built on the expectations that it is turned on. I’d rather not have that option at all and instead have everyone be on the same page, with no expectations of comms with strangers. One less thing to consider, say no to, to disappoint others with.
Nowadays I’d probably use VC if they had it, but I never would have started playing if they did, so I’m glad there are still games where it’s not even an option.
So I’d say for a fair percentage that absolutely is the reason. That, and the horror icons.
I see that and it certainly takes that initial worry out, but DBD isn’t that competitive, so there would be no pressure to talk really even if it did exist (different for each person I guess, how they feel about that). It’s a more chill game and the community in my experience is a lot more open-minded than your hyper-competitive games like CS where you find all the degenerates, I think that’s why its mostly more welcoming.
Text-chat has been way more toxic in my experience anyway. Usually they stop talking on the mic and start typing.
Without voice or text chat enabled that expectation of “should use VC to not be a burden on your team when they’re trying to communicate” is if course a projection, but it’s still powerful, and there’s no way of knowing how true that projection is without actually hearing from your teammates. So there’s really now way out of it besides “get over it” (which isn’t easy after a lifetime of learning to cater to others unspoken expectations)… Or by playing a game where there is no option of VC, so there cannot be any possible expectations of it, and no downside of not enabling it.
For something one does to unwind I don’t feel like unpacking and facing deep-seated psychologically ingrained issues and the level of discomfort that brings, so it’s easier to choose games where that issue isn’t an issue.
And now, after playing for a few years I feel confident enough to actually consider playing games with mic on. But I wouldn’t get there if those were the only ones available, I’d just find a different hobby or play offline.
I get that. It’s awesome you are open to it now.
I’ve made some good friends on dbd and it’s nice to be able to speak to them, I think maybe the game could benefit from a mode with voice enabled, so there’s at least the option. But maybe that would fragment the playerbase a bit or eventually turn the game more toxic. It would be hilarious though if the survivors and killers had proximity voice, thats something I would love to try!
I would absolutely love a game mode with proximity chat! As a temporary game mode with a separate queue, just to let us try it out. Maybe it could have a dB-manager so people (or at least survivors) were only able to murmur or whisper and everything with loud talking or screaming would be muted? It’s be really fun to frantically whisper “the killer is coming, run” or murmur “I’m gonna get ya!” in a chase, or hear a survivor whisper some instructions and then their audio cut out from screaming due to a jump scare.
I think it could be a sort of middle road if there was a voice option for added friends in the game so that people can chat with their friends across platforms. That way people who want to chat with strangers can add people to their friends list while in any lobby (maybe with a category for “besties” or favourites to be able to sort irl-friends into), with the extra step to VC with in-game friends still keeping away the expectation that everyone can/should freely VC with strangers.
just like in real life.
online there are the sexual guys who will buy you anything to be theirs.
And there are the annoying sexist ones. I think it often has to do with a primitive feeling in the guy of “there is a female right there that im interacting with but she isnt having sex with me. i am thus annoyed.” so the male does mean pokes at the female because it’s “her fault” they arent having sex. i’ve seen it a trillion times. “why arent you MY bitch?” pokes rudely
And lastly there is the good type of male who, just like the good type of female, can have fun with you while playing the game together and enjoying the play; simple as that.
There was that study that found that the men most aggressive towards women in gaming were those less skilled than them, I think about that one a lot
That same “study” uses evolution psychology which was proven to be not reliable. But hey at least we get to demonize men right as always.
oh dang, women have been telling you for the past like 40 years that video games are an incredibly exclusionary space and turns out they weren’t just lying??? crazy, it’s almost like we should be listening to people when they have problems in a community. i mean jfc people actually needed a study to prove this? ask any woman who’s ever attempted to speak in game chat what happens, just ask.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros.
Oh wow, I didn’t knew that Super Mario or Tetris on the NES was an “incredibly exclusionary space” because that’s not how I remember it.
I’m glad you taught me that.
Activities don’t need to be inherently sexist for the culture surrounding them to be. Consider the ways things like healthcare, cooking, and hunting have been gendered in different times and places.
Being a girl trying to talk about video games with boys was generally horrible, it’s not just the multiplayer experience, the ‘you like games, then name every X ever!’ followed by bullying has been alive and well for over 30 years.
gotta love that you not only completely missed the point, but you quite perfectly encapsulate the kind of “gotcha” rhetoric that women hear every day in gaming spaces from these toxic men.
it’d be funny if it weren’t depressing.
Well you win the most asinine comment I’ve read today.
Even I remember girls getting crapped on in the arcades.
So, to participate in modern gaming, women should play games from 40 years ago?
Or just single player games in general. If Super Mario is fine (main “story” being that a princess gets abducted by a male villain and rescued by a man), there really aren’t that many games that are significantly worse.
So, again, to participate in modern gaming, women should play only single-player games. Like, to avoid men?
Multiplayer with randos is to be avoided in general IMO.
I wasn’t on board until this statement but this is exactly why I fell off any amount of competitive games very quickly.
oh yeah i’m sure your half rotten memory is a reliable source, thanks grandpappy
Interesting study. Explicitly about mobile gaming, not PC gaming, though …
Dr Seán Roberts, who researches gaming at Cardiff University, said: “When I ask people if they play video games, women often say no. But if you ask about playing games on a mobile, many of them will suddenly say yes. It’s like they have an idea of what a real gamer is in their heads, and they feel like they don’t meet that ideal.”
TBF I don’t really consider myself a gamer anymore… even though I clock a few hours a week on the playstation. But like I used to play competitive FPS/MOBA/RTS 10+ hours a week.
How can you call yourself competitive when you didn’t even clock 40+ hours a week? Competitive gaming isn’t just a hobby, it’s a way of life… Poser.
//This comment was brought to you by Raid: Shadow Legends! Play now!!!//
lmao.
40+??? That’s scrub level commitment. Get gud and you’ll be on the leaderboards playing 10+ a week. /s
So they aren’t actually getting excluded from games they just dont view themselves as gamers probaby because that label is cringe. I wouldn’t consider someone who casually plays mobile games to be a gamer either. Gamer isnt just anyone who play a games, it describes someone who embeds themselves in gaming communities and culture and engages gaming as a hobby. Same as going for a walk doesn’t make you a hiker.
I play pc games often and wouldnt consider myself a gamer.
There’s plenty of mobile games you can sink thousand of hours in to.
Would you consider someone who has played Tetris for 10,000 hours a gamer?
Why would Candy Crush be different?
Genshin? There’s plenty of literal gamer communities for the gacha games.
There is no difference between sinking 10k hours into tetris, candy crush or csgo. I’d consider all to be gamers. But sinking 10k hours isnt casual. Someone who plays candy crush every day and is active in candy crush communities would be a gamer. But someone who has candy crush on their phone and plays every now and then for short periods and doesnt engage in anything else related to candy crush or gaming i would not consider to be a gamer.
If someone wants to argue that the casual candy crush player is a gamer then I’ll let them have it and will need to make a new label because at that point its watered down beyond use. Gamer as a label is pretty cringe anyway so I doubt many are actually calling themself that.
How much RGB do you have?
Valid question. 0.
Def not a gamer then.
… feel like they don’t meet that ideal.
Well, there’s your problem, idealizing the traditional “gamer” persona. I play computer games every day, for a long time, and I also don’t feel like a “gamer,” because I don’t want to be associated with people I would consider “gamers.”
That might be a side effect of my not wanting to be associated with anyone, but there you have it.
Goood, I can feel your Gamer anger. Beneath the skin we are already one. Even now the evil seed of the Gamer germinates within you. strike me down and your journey to the dark side will be complete.
lmfaoooooo
How the fuck are they getting shamed and excluded in mobile games?
We need equality in the gaming space.
We should shame everyone who plays games on phones equally.
Probably by the common mindset that mobile games don’t really count for gaming clout.
If i compare what crap games i’ve played on my PC sometimes to mobile games, i feel that such boundaries are pretty arbitrary. There are some mobile games that can keep up with PC gaming too - Shattered Pixel Dungeon and Hoplite come to mind.
I feel like Puzzle Quest and Gyromancer are “real” games, but somehow Bejeweled and Candy Crush are silly things for little girls and bored housewives. Hell, I think Progress Quest would be considered more legitimate to the kinds of people with this mindset, and that’s not even a game.
Self-inflicted wound.
She plays Candy Crush and feels that calling herself a “gamer” for it amounts to stolen valor.
Maybe she’s right, maybe she isn’t. I’m a woodworker, and I’d built several bookshelves, tables, shop fixtures and cutting boards before I felt comfortable wearing the rank. I would insist I was an amateur or a beginner. It was my little porch table that is made with genuine mortise and tenons that I felt I’d earned it.
And that’s without the gender politics of it. Here I’m a man doing traditionally masculine things. I’m not a man taking up knitting or a woman taking up gaming.
just looking at it as a classification of genres, they (men & women) rightly feel shame and exclusion because mobile gaming is to gaming as connect4 is to table top gaming.
-as decreed from the Assistant to the High Stellarch of the PC Master Race 69th Group, Section 420.
Given where this is coming from, im waiting for the drop where they blame the tranas community for this. Somehow.
i mean of course youre going to have a conclusion like that polling exclusively mobile game players. For example had they polled female MMO players (there are a lot), the results would likely be far different.
Eh, I’m one of those MMO ‘females’. I have to be really cautious when I first join a guild. I’m often seen as a ‘female’ first and gamer second. The amount of times I’ve gotten OnlyFans comments is way too high. I’ve had the best luck in multiplayer FPS games. The downfall of Bungie hits me hard because Destiny in particular was a great place to be a woman gamer. Can you do the mechanic and communicate? That’s all a good team wants.
Absolutely, in a guild with a female GM and we’ve collected a fair number of female gamers because of it. But we still end up kicking folks occasionally because they lose their shit when they hear a female on discord.
Many men are emotionally unable to accept things like this. I think the reasoning goes like
- i’m a good person
- i like my hobby
- someone is saying bad things about my hobby
- this makes me feel bad, so it must be false
- furthermore, the person bringing it up is attacking me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance
Facts don’t matter. There’s really nothing you can do if you’re not someone they like.
I also think about this comic a lot: https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1151.html - Some people are too cowardly to grow.
This is the first time I’ve ever seen someone link an oots comic. Nice pick.
I also think it may be just… sexism… I know people who behave like this towards women, but not other men…
Who play mobile games
So not proper gaming like on console or PC?
Yeah that’s definitely not going to be exclusive to mobile games, but I always feel like mobile games are generally more isolating to begin with.
