I swear, every time most of the time I see someone being particularly rude, ignorant, and inappropriate on a post (usually political in origin, or they swing it to being political) I click on their profile and see it has been created that same day.
They are only there to sow discord. Only to piss people off. Idk if we can just report them (for what?) but I’d like to try exposing them before responding and interacting…
I am guilty of gobbling up the bait. I’ve started looking at profiles of people that piss me off exceptionally and noticed they’re burner bot loser accounts.
I guess i just want to say I’ve noticed it!
Voyager has a setting to show a baby emoji next to the name of a user if their account is less than a month old and an account age. Probably one of the best features I’ve ever seen for immediately recognizing troll accounts.
I find at least one commenter with a new account on almost every post with more than 5 comments.
They tend to be negative.
Think I’m going to start welcoming them to Lemmy, note their activity to date, and ask them nicely what might have brought them to join. (If they are real, glad to have them, but I have found most Lemmy members came here from Reddit, not to make accounts to post in News or Politics or such places trolls would like.)
Until Lemmy updates to identify new accounts ala Voyager, I think that would be helpful to inform other users they may be talking to a troll.
There are approximately 433k accounts but only 48k Monthly Active Users.
It’s hard to believe that many of posts and comments are often the newest accounts, and though they will change tactics to using older accounts, at least it’s more work for them.
I recommend others do the same.
deleted by creator
Is voyager an app like Sync?
Yes
Yes, and no ads either.
For now, because Lemmy is relatively new. There’s a reason many bot farms run accounts that are unassuming, “normal” people. Accounts that are established have value. They can then sell those accounts to another group who needs to sew discord. The older Lemmy is, the less useful the new account icon will be.
nice. would love something like that on a web interface.
Voyager started as a progressive web app. vger.app. I prefer it to Lemmy’s interface even on computer.
I’m a big dumb. I’ve been using the Voyager app for a while and knew about the web app but never clicked I could use that on desktop.
I love that he called it “vger”
👀
There’s already an issue on lemmy-ui for it.
Love this comment from that GitHub page…
This is urgently needed for the upcoming elections.
The only problem though is a lot of time astroturfers/bots create accounts and then just let them sit idle for 6-9 months before using them.
Maybe you could combat that by deleting inactive accounts that seemed to never have been used.
But they can get around that. It’s a never ending battle against that kind of stuff.
Yeah exactly.
The filtering would had to be more sophisticated, instead of an age by date, maybe an age by number of posts within an amount of time, etc.
But astroturfers/bots can work with that too, to a certain extent.
Part of the attraction of this place is that it is like things used to be for the most part. Freedom of expression has always been a double edged sword that all of us have to be responsible for. When you start asking others to police an environment, youre giving up that freedom not just for those you find distasteful but for yourself as well. If you simply excercise due diligence in your consumption, you can easily learn what is comfortably digestible and what will give you a heart attack
I think I’m seeing something different, although also synthetic in nature.
It seems like companies or brands are in here (and probably on any social media) actively controlling the message about their brand. People make a post or comment about a specific thing (or person) and you get pre-packages responses, similar in nature and argument.
It makes you feel like it’s tin foil hat time, but I’ve seen different accounts proporting the same exact experiences about a product, which are super specific in nature.
I could see that being a part of a company trying to actively “control the message,” but it makes you question the authenticity of a lot of posts or arguments. Is that person really standing up for this thing with a questionable history, or are they a paid shill?
What would be a safe space from this though? A forum small enough to stay under the radar? I enjoy larger platforms like this because of the diversity in content and viewpoints, but not if it’s a haven for corporate messaging or agencies controlling a narrative.
Am I joining the tin foil hat club here, or has anyone else seen similar?
I disagree. This place isn’t big enough. The nerdiest people I know don’t even know what it is. I worked at a Dev tools company and I spoke to devs all day and everyone is still on Reddit. Nobody corporate cares enough to spend that time here, especially in what’s pretty much an overblown Linux dick-sucking-competition forum. The fake libertarians are ripe for alt right indoctrination however. That, plus the wannabe commies and fake leftists, Russia and China can pickup a few votes from the West here and there.
I hope you’re right
Wait, tankies and libertarians are fake, and China and Russia are interested, but corporate isn’t? I’m not sure this position is coherent
All they want is attention. I simply don’t give them the satisfaction of a response. They get bored and move on.
Do they just want attention? Or are they malicious actors from those that consider Lemmy competition?
Even if they’re malicious actors, they want attention just the same. They want to lure you into a bad faith “debate” so they can spread their propaganda. Either way, the solution is the same - ignore them. Don’t give them the opportunity to reply and promote more bullshit.
They’re malicious actors, but reddit is just as bad right now. It’ll die down to more organic hate after the elections.
It’s those god damn cracka ass crackas taking up the black mans freedom of speech
.ml is very obviously like 20% right wing trolls pretending to be leftists. Literally everyone on the fediverse can see it except for the admins who protect these trolls because of Poe’s law blindness.
I believe THIS is exactly what is being talked about when they say “Russian troll farm”
Some threads have a handful of interactions that seem less than genuine, yes. Usually political and derailing and spoil the thread.
The whole of Lemmy is, in general, severely under-moderated.
Part of it is personnel (being a moderator is a crappy job and we don’t have the people to do it) but it’s also ideological. A lot of people here believe that allowing disruptive speech is better than suppressing expression.
That’s a choice and we live with the consequences.
That’s a choice and we live with the consequences.
I mean, let’s be clear: The choice lies with the users. If users want to allow disruptive speech (or what’s worse), they can go to the instances/communities that allow that kind of speech. If not, they can go to other instances/communities that have stricter moderation.
You don’t have to personally live with it - go somewhere else if you don’t like where you are right now.
You don’t have to personally live with it - go somewhere else if you don’t like where you are right now.
I have been spending relatively more time on Bluesky now you mention it. They way they do block propagation is just 😘👌
What is block propagation?
I’m not super sharp about the details, but if you block someone, by default other people don’t see their replies on your stuff. There may be more features but I’m not sure.
Anyway, it remains functional even when overrun with shitheads because not everyone needs to block everyone.
I see.
not everyone needs to block everyone.
I feel like defederation is the tool for this on the Fediverse. But just to be clear, when I said “go somewhere else if you don’t like where you are right now” I didn’t mean go away from the Fediverse, I just meant another community or instance basically.
I would argue that defederation is a completely fucking brain dead way to deal with bad faith users.
And the “fediverse” has no answers here.
How come? I mean if there is a concentration of bad faith users on an instance or maybe the instance attracts such types because it has no rules or directly encourages such behaviour, is it not good that other instances can choose not to interact with that instance?
Yeah. Maybe if mods weren’t constantly removing factual information as “disinformation”, you’d have a point.
But again, you choose your mods. If you think your mods are being unreasonable, use other communities with better mods - or start your own community and become the better mod yourself.
It’s a “this type of website” problem, not limited to one page or instance.
Hmm. Maybe? I’d like to think it’s possible to do a website of this type without those problems. But I could be wrong I guess.
This place is like a black mirror episode. “It’s okay, just block the Nazis and it’s like they’re not there terrorizing and indoctrinating others, bc I can’t see it”
If your instance admins haven’t defederated with the nazi instances yet you gotta talk to them my friend. You could also move to a different instance that has defederated from the nazi instances, I think most have.
@lemmy.world
talking about other instances being nazi bars
I don’t mean each user needs to block people, I mean go to instances and communities that are well-moderated.
At the same time, parts of Lemmy are severely over-moderated. Anything much outside of the mods’ pro-Russian, pro-CCP, pro-Hamas narrative on /c/worldnews is frequently removed and the user banned. Pro-Western users have a strict bigotry standard applied, while anti-Western users can say anything. This has cropped up at the admin level as well. Of course people are going to create troll accounts when that sort of thing happens.
Yea, I have gotten comments removed and banned several times from lemmy.ml for disagreeing with literal and easily disproven Russian propaganda. You don’t even need to be pro anything, just disagreeing with Russia does it.
Yea, I have gotten comments removed and banned several times from lemmy.ml for disagreeing with literal and easily disproven Russian propaganda. You don’t even need to be pro anything, just disagreeing with Russia does it.
You think moderators remove those comments? (/s)
Protip: by replying to a comment on many apps, you can see the content of the comment. This can be very useful.
You can also check the modlogs. They can be really revealing.
/c/worldnews
Which one? There’s one on every instance.
The best one of course
Yup! I had a comment removed from lemmy.ml because I said something nice about the USA. I had another comment removed because I said something not nice about CCP.
What did you say?
According to moderators, even using the word “CCP” makes you a racist orientalist Nazi.
If that sounds like the neolib tactic of calling all criticism of Israel (or even the Netanyahu regime) “antisemitic” that’s because it is.
That’s not what they said, though, and that’s not what you said either. I understand wanting to make your case, but you understated what got removed and overstated the reaction, which was just a removed comment and a 1 day ban for Orientalism.
You didn’t critique the CPC either, unless you think calling for death is critique.
If you stalked my comment history, then you’re being extremely selective and disingenuous, or very lazy.
“Death to Amerikkka” is not a critique either. But it is allowed by moderators. Do you condemn that equally?
A political party is not a race.
Death to the CCP.
To quote @davel@lemmy.ml : Reporter, please learn the difference between a people and a state.
Nah, I just checked the modlog against your name, I didn’t stalk it.
I didn’t say “Death to Amerikkka” is a critique, you said critiquing the CCP gets you removed, but you didn’t critique the CPC as evidenced by the modlog. I think it was more cringe than anything.
Anything much outside of the mods’ pro-Russian, pro-CCP, pro-Hamas narrative on /c/worldnews is frequently removed and the user banned. Pro-Western users have a strict bigotry standard applied, while anti-Western users can say anything.
I noticed somebody who wrote “death to amerikkka” was given official mod sanction (saying that it was a country not a people group) so I made the same comment about the CCP.
Comment removed. Banned.
Confirmed.
Uses the racist abbreviation used by nazis
Gets banned for like 3 days tops
“This is oppression. I’m being oppressed.”
“Racist” - learn the difference between a state and a race.
Everybody calls the CCP the CCP. This is literally a “Nazis drink water” situation.
Death to the CCP. Death to all other fascist groups.
What coherent theory of fascism puts Nazi Germany and modern China in that same bucket? https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Fascism
Fascism, usually understood in Marxist theory as capitalism in decay, is a counter-revolutionary reactionary movement led by finance capital, and a form of dictatorship of the bourgeoisie which emerged during periods of economic crisis in imperialist countries. The Third International described fascism as the “open, terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, and most imperialist elements of finance capital.”
Fascism abolishes bourgeois democracy without abolishing bourgeois rule itself. […]
Fascism usually promotes policies that favour the ever-expanding domination of capital. Its political aspect is marked by pervasive anti-communism, a profound aversion towards democracy, the justification and glorification of class society through class collaboration, and chauvinistic tendencies, namely reactionary nationalism, racism, sexism, and ableism. Fascist ideologues usually promote conspiracy theories, irrational myths and manipulative distortions of truth to gather support of their popular base.
Fascism abolishes bourgeois democracy without abolishing bourgeois rule itself. […]
Look no further than the capitalist class at the top of the CCP. Its imperialist initiatives. Its reactionary treatment of Muslims, LGBT people, etc.
Inb4 internal propaganda. Nazis say Jews got great swimming pools.
Inb4 internal propaganda.
No idea what that’s supposed to mean, but let’s go through the bog-standard Five Eyes Kool Aid you’ve presented.
Look no further than the capitalist class at the top of the CCP.
The capitalist class is not at the top of the CPC. China is a proletarian state, where the capitalist class is not in control: China’s housing minister says real estate developers must go bankrupt if necessary. Whereas the US is a bourgeois state, where the capitalist class is in control.
The US Federal Reserve is just the cartel of the US private banks and they also largely control the Treasury. Whereas banking in China is predominantly state owned. The Chinese state both runs these banks and has fiat monetary sovereignty, so it’s not answerable to the capitalists. A bit of a tangent/background: Why The Government Has Infinite Money
Its imperialist initiatives.
What imperialist initiatives? The US has over 750 overseas bases around the world and is installing more right now in order to further encircle China. Meanwhile China has one anti-piracy base on the coast of Djibouti. https://lemmy.ml/comment/10148422
Its reactionary treatment of Muslims, LGBT people, etc.
What reactionary treatment of Muslims? They get material support from the state just as other religions do, despite the CPC being formally atheist/agnostic. Their official position is that religions will eventually wither away on their own.
Or did you really mean Uyghurs? They and other ethic minorities were excepted from the One-Child policy, and in Xinjiang they have grown in numbers relative to Hans as a result.
In accordance with China’s affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas. I’ve beaten the Uyghur genocide (“cultural” or otherwise) psyop to death already: https://lemmy.ml/comment/10145782
LGBT people
I’m not very familiar with China’s current situation on this large topic. The US is no shining beacon on a hill here, either. Been to Tennessee or Florida lately? Even the distorted stories we get US Cold War II think tanks and corporate media don’t put things anywhere near fascism. The US has a whole human rights concern troll industrial complex aimed at countries it wants to regime change.
etc.
What etcetera? You know what, here are answers to some of your next questions: https://lemmy.ml/comment/9448375
A lot of people here believe that allowing disruptive speech is better than suppressing expression.
Yep! Imo it’s the only way to beat trolls. If you suppress it, your still giving it attention and publicity. Your also playing into their game that they will claim you sensor truth.
Imo if you tell someone: “yeah, come to lemmy, voice your opinion. We won’t ban you but if we mostly disagree and ignore, clearly your idea was not with its salt”.
No, I don’t think I have.
What instances/comms are you noticing it on?
100%. I’ve been saying it over and over. It’s election season on the internet, division aplenty.
There’s a very easy way to stop division: Have a set of values based in reality, and use that to determine what is not up for debate. The first thing a good troll will do is push at the fabric of what is acceptable and erode the community from there. Some people are inherently unreasonable and therefore shouldn’t be listened to. Give them a chance to see the light and if they refuse, give em the yeet.
The reason why neo-nazi communities are so quick to fall apart is because their values are not based on reality, so all you have to do is point out a single contradiction and then watch as they passionately debate themselves into increasingly splintering groups. My favorite that sits on the mantle of shit-stirring pot is “Trump is pro-Israel” which absolutely decimates any far-right community it touches.
Current Contenders:
- found the egocentric, ethnocentric American!
- (adjusts tone and verbage to current audience) Sounds like neo-libralism to me!
- Tankie‽
- Biden, Trump : Old, Fascist
- Beans and denim?
- Palestine vs. Isreal
- Ukraine vs. Russian
- the rights of (insert oppressed group)
- Individual/State rights
- Linux
- Abortion
- LGBTQ
- Oil/Nuclear/Fossil/Coal/Renewable
- Climate Change
- Class-gap
- Sustainability
- Equality
…Fight!!!
Round 2 …
- found the egocentric, ethnocentric American!
hmmm
The year 2024 is notable for the large number of elections, with 8 of the world’s 10 most populous nations (Bangladesh, Brazil, India, United States, Indonesia, Pakistan, Russia, Mexico) voting; countries that are home to nearly half of the world’s people will hold elections in 2024. Around 2 billion voters - approximately a quarter of the world’s population - are expected to be heading to the polls this year.
Stay blissful my friend.
But yes, American social media platforms are targeted during American elections, so you aren’t ignorant about one thing.
Every time I hear that 2024 is a big election year for the world I don’t really understand the stats.
Around 2 billion voters - approximately a quarter of the world’s population - are expected to be heading to the polls this year.
Like if everyone has 4 year terms then generally a quarter of the world’s population will have an election every year.
Not every county has four year terms. Also, elections can be triggered early for various reasons.
Not every country has elections either.
What other terms are popular? 3 years ?
A first round contender, I see
☝️
NIt’s election season on the internet
Is it? Or is it just election season in a couple of specific countries, and not elsewhere…
Just sayin :P
I have not seen this. Can you link to some examples?
Yes. I hardly look at Lemmy any more. It’s so toxic
I sympathize for you. I suggest for you to block users you find toxic.
Thank you. The one sympathetic voice in a sea of frothing idiocy
But you made a post less <2 days ago, and commented over 50 times just this past week
So, did you just VERY recently start “hardly looking” or something? Or are you just trolling/full of
shitbologna?. No hard feelings or anything, but damn; low effort. Be better
We are effectively in an information war with Russia, and that’s really driving up the trolling. Not that every troll is a Russian bot, but they are really driving the trend and giving inspiration to terrible people. A lot of it is also laundered garbage from anarcho-capitalist “think tanks”.
