I’m starting to think Israel aren’t the good guys…
For those of you doubting the claims for lack of evidence, stating that you’ll “wait for the facts” or evidence before allowing yourslf to be outraged—
Where is your outrage for the countless other people who were there who personally testified to being beaten, abused, and paraded around like trophies?
There are already multiple interviews with Chris Smalls, a black American labor organizer, who directly confirmed that he had been beaten, choked, packed like a sardine into a small cell, sleep deprived, strip searched, and completely brutalized by the Israeli navy and prison system.
Ask yourself—why does this need to have happened to the appropriately aged, white, European female on a 4k, live streamed or recorded feed with corroborating testimony by the Israelis and the national newspapers of the country of origin of the supposed victim—why is that the bar you’ve set for credulity?
What does that say about you or your reaction to the situation?
Wake. Up.
Fuck the details, fuck the squabbling over what constitutes “roughness” versus physical assault. Fuck the inclination to want to hear “the other side” of the story. Things are going horribly wrong in Israel/Palestine—in a place that we’ve all been told over and over is supposed to be demonstrably above reproach. If even half these claims are true—if even a single one of them is true—what GOOD is it preserving the supposed beacon of democracy in the middle east when they treat foreigners this way?
Even if you think these activists are mentally unwell, or menaces, or being performative, or just doing this for “selfies”—so what? We all know these activists are obviously not terrorists and at least some of them genuinely believe what they are doing. None of this justifies their treatment. Nothing justifies the richest and proudest countries on earth—however much you might agree with that claim—what GOOD is that if our prisons condemn people to absolute squalor and abandonment to the whims of their guards?
HOW is this any different from the indignity camps? These peoples possessions were seized as trophies , their clothes taken, their bodies crammed together like chattel. Do there need to be ovens for there to be discernable lines? Must you feel the radiant heat on your own brows before you’ll indulge the sensation that something isn’t right here?
Wake. Up.
Wow, Israel really is the only democracy in the Middle East!
They are the evil they claim to be fighting
Idk why this is treated as though its so inconceivable. Greta is hated by conservatives around the world. Most countries have already condemned Israel. They only care what Trump’s regime thinks. Their prisons are notorious centers of physical emotional and sexual torture. This is relatively mild treatment in comparison to many of the accounts I’ve read. It’s still awful, but if they were going to invent a story about how vile the Israeli prison guards were, this wouldnt be noteworthy in any way. Barely even scratches the surface of the things that happen in those prisons.
English really needs to stop calling the right wing “conservatives”. We don’t call them that in other languages, and they literally don’t try to conserve things, but instead always seek to destroy.
I prefer “reactionary,” because it accurately describes their political philosophy and tactics.
Also, it really pisses them off.
Not all the right wing is conservative of course and you are right about it, but you are wrong about the meaning of conservative, being a conservative mean those who in politics uphold the value of tradition, oppose any progressive ideology, and aim to preserve traditional social and political structures
At their core, Conservatives are cowards, afraid of EVERYTHING: Democrats, Liberals, Minorities, other religions, other countries, poor people, women, women’s private parts, gays, and anyone else who wants society to improve their lives.
Conservatives are fully satisfied with the way things are, and are terrified that any changes in society would be at the expense of the superior situation that they have created for themselves over centuries.
Their overwhelming need for control over all else has allowed corruption in every form to take root, and they feel far less need to end that, than their need to punish their perceived enemies.
So the result is the MAGA Party, whose primary function is to support the concepts of greed, treason, racism, corruption, incompetence, ignorance, intolerance, and pedophilia.
This is a terribly written comment… There is a better way to say what you’re trying to say. I think. I’m not 100% on what your point really is.
Their point is right there taking up half the comment:
being a conservative mean those who in politics uphold the value of tradition, oppose any progressive ideology, and aim to preserve traditional social and political structures
In other words, they’re “conserving” traditional values.
However this isn’t really true, and @Lumisal@lemmy.world is correct that this isn’t really what they’re doing. It’s how they think they’re behaving, but they have a distorted view on history and see it through rose tinted glasses, often trying not to conserve but to “restore” society to some half-cocked version that never really existed.
Absolutely true, but all of that is just the marching orders from the leadership to keep the rubes occupied and distracted, while they fulfill whatever personal agendas they have, mostly stealing as much as possible, but also committing treason, getting their rocks off abusing people, and kissing their Fuhrer’s stinky ass.
Presumably because anyone with half a brain would realize that she should have gotten a far more diplomatic treatment regardless of how much of a genocidal asshole they were. The fact that she is getting treated this way shows how far Israel has devolved to and how much more people people should be protesting any interaction with the country.
Unfortunately, it isn’t the only Middle East country who behaves like shit, whom people in other countries have protested, and whom their governments don’t care. But at least the fiction of what Israel was trying to project itself as has toppled considerably.
Of course she deserved better treatment. So did Sophie Scholl. It’s just very odd to act like this is not a believable thing that Israel, famed mass murderers of children, would do.
Israel hasn’t devolved, the state was founded on acts of colonialist genocide. This is what the state of Israel has always been.
At the same time, she is also a public figure. If they had treated her well, they would have less of a leg to stand on. Whereas mistreating her just raises the question that if they are treating a relatively known public figure in that way, what happens to the less-known people, who don’t have as much of a platform to speak out on.
And Greta isn’t the only person claiming that they did awful, abusive, hateful things. Chris Smalls got it, too.
Chris Smalls gave a chilling interview with Amy Goodman where he basically said that the Israelis treated him worse than he’s been treated in his entire life as a black man in America. That’s saying a lot.
The full interview.
They abused her less than some other people so it is ok. What kind of dumb logic is that?
Where did i say it was okay? It is abhorrent. I said that if they were going to invent a story about her graphic torture, this abuse is comparatively minor compared with other accounts from Israeli prisons.
Israel to Nazis: When I left you I was but the learner now I am the master.
Israel has apparently said this in response to the situation:
I don’t see how that’s consistent with them murdering civilians in Gaza.
Because they don’t see civilians in Gaza as people.
They literally call Palestinians (not Hamas, Palestinians) “human animals” and “vermin”, just like the NAZIs used to literally say that Jews and Roma were “subhuman” and “vermin”.
Let’s be honest, they don’t really see non Jews as people either. Zionist ideology is based on Jewish supremacy. They see Christian evangelical Americans as useful idiots. Everyone else is beneath them.
Religion is an excuse for violence. Prove me wrong.
Religion is just another excuse for violence.
The NAZIs put the Roma People in the same category as Jews - so, to be exterminated as an ethnicity (“curiously” there are no Oscar Winning films about the plight of the Roma People, nor has Germany tried to make amends with them) - and yet they tend to be Christians, same as the NAZIs.
Ethno-Fascists regimes are dominated by Psychopaths and Sociopaths, and these people don’t care about Religion beyond it’s immense utility as a tool to manipulate other people.
Ironically, Zionism is an ideology founded by atheist Jews
Maybe religions are an excuse for trying to achieve certain political goals. E.g. a Christian in the USA might say “we have to ban abortion because God says abortion is wrong”. And a settler Jew in Israel might say “we have to occupy the West Bank because God says that land belongs to Jews”. And a conservative Muslim might say “women should not be allowed to drive because God says so”.
Always has been.
The most expected outcome of the expedition.
Exactly the kind of thing Israel would do. Very consistent and predictable of them.
Breaking: terrorists behave like terrorists
Israel is a rogue terrorist state.
This is another pivotal moment. WE can speak out and make our elected officials (wherever we are in the world) KNOW that their political careers and their parties future depends upon their actions.
You do not govern their careers. They know it and they do not care
Only because we have abdicated our power. We can take it back.
You only ever had the illusion of power. Power resides with capital, and as long as capitalists are allowed sole ownership over the means of production, the people will only ever be able to expend titanic effort gathering enough power to gain a temporary reform.
Power resides with capital,
No it doesn’t, that’s just propaganda to make us feel weak and controlled. If capital was all it took, then the American Revolution and the French Revolution would have been won by those with the most money, along with many other insurgencies throughout history.
There are many, many examples where those with money lost their power to those without.
Both the American and French revolutions were bourgeoise capitalist revolutions… and neither led to significant gains of power for the people of the nations, just for the bourgeoisie who led the revolutions.
Not the point. The assertion was that power comes from capital, and as wealthy as the Founding Fathers were, their wealth was NOTHING compared to what the British or French governments held. Being outnumbered by an angry violent mob is far more powerful than money.
And I don’t think your statement holds with the French Revolution. The elites didn’t launch the revolution, they lost their heads to it.
My point is that while capital certainly helps, it is not the only factor in the success of a revolution. America has nearly unlimited resources, and yet we lost both Vietnam and Afghanistan to guerilla insurgencies. Nearly all successful revolutions consisted of the powerful corrupt being crushed by their victims.
And not all revolutions are about giving more power to the people, many are just about kicking out the corrupt criminals who are exploiting the nation. They don’t always expect that they will benefit with more power, they’re just happy that people aren’t being snatched off the streets, or tortured, or drafted into wars of economic opportunity, or starving, or the economy looted, etc. Most don’t expect to have a say in who the leaders are, they just feel like they have to be better than the current psychopaths.
Yes, but you and I have to organize in our communities where we live to make that happen.
That commenter said “we”, not “I”.
Are you saying that we—collectively—don’t bear any democratic responsibility for the people that we elect to office? Or are you cynically implying that the original poster has no power over the situation?
I don’t get the sense that you’re trying to attack that person, but what do you gain from public displays of cynicism to remind people that they are powerless?
If nothing then please reconsider. 🙁
Are you saying that we—collectively—don’t bear any democratic responsibility for the people that we elect to office?
This. Democracy is no more
Heads should roll. Quite literally. That is the only message they will understand.
You do not govern their careers. They know it and they do not care
Regardless of what your opinions on Palestine might be, Israel really isn’t beating the allegations right now.
I remember what I learned in school about this, it was described as a territory dispute between two equal belligerents. Maybe that was true 30 years ago, I don’t know, but it really doesn’t describe what’s going on right now.
The war is over. Israel won, Palestine barely even exists anymore. This is the part where you’re supposed to facilitate aid and win over the losers to your side. dafuq flavor of genocide you dune Israel?
of course, nobody who needs to read this will ever see it. I’m just upset that this kind of thing can even happen in current year.
Of course the second, I’m looking at current events like it’s still 2015. not sure why I’m doing that, but fuck does current events make me miss 2015.
Bruh, reminds me of the stories I heard about ww2 when the imperial japanese army invaded my homeland China, they would force people to kneel and sing the japanese national anthem under the threat of execution if people didn’t comply. Its so evil disgusting villainy.
The irony (for anyone not clear on it or not catching it) is that the Israeli military forced the captives to wrap themselves in the flag of Israel—which prominently features the star of David—so that soldiers could take pictures of them that could be circulated to humiliate the activists.
Where else have we heard of people being forced to wear the star of David so that everyone could point and laugh and humiliated them?
Israeli soldiers are so eager to “tea bag” their enemies with their own flag that they’re unable to see the irony.
It’s a sad case of “hurt people hurt people”.
I think it’s a sad case of cunts being cunts
I mean no offense on the whole, but its quite ironic given the reports on how they treat Uyghur folks.
…Kinda like Israel’s irony here. And the US, and, you know, a whole lot of countries right now. Trauma tends to get passed down, it seems.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Israel is evil
