- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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The attrition is slow, but every user lost to Linux is likely lost forever. After a year or so of totally free software, who is going to build a new windows compatible PC, buy a Windows 11 license, and pay for subscription service just to do word processing, or play a few incompatible games?
Windows completely overestimates people’s willingness to throw out their laptop or PC just to get a new OS paintjob. For every person who does it, another one will leave their ecosystem forever.
Old Brazilian hack to use Windows: just don’t buy it.
How does that help making using it less painful?
It’s more painful when you have to pay more that a month’s worth salary and it’s shit (Windows 11 Pro is R$1600, minimum monthly salary is R$1412, around $280)
Thanks for exporting this to the US, I made extensive use of it ~1999-2008
I think I didn’t buy a Windows license ever. Got Win 7 free from my college and always could upgrade for free to the next version. I never used MS Office, mostly did use the Google suite. Games were the only thing that kept me, especially since I got more privacy continuous over the past few years.
I’m currently dual booting Win 11 and Linux mint as a test phase. Actually just running windows for the proprietary phone client I need for work. Otherwise I’m newly exclusively using LM right now. Though I might make the switch to EndeavourOS for it’s rolling release approach and AUR.
Only thing I really hate is that there are some proprietary software like ICUE, L-Connect a proper scanning software for my printer including OCR (there is a version for Linux but it doesn’t include OCR) or shitty driver support for my graphics card. But none of those are issues coming from Linux itself but rather from the lack of support from the developers. Also, I love DLSS and Ray tracing but seriously… fuck Nvidia.
For the OCR, have you tried tesseract? For printed documents it can take image input and generate a pdf with selectable text. I don’t OCR much but it has been useful when I tried a few times.
You might be able to have a script that takes the scanner input into tesseract and output a pdf. It only works on a single image per run so I had to make script to run it on whole pdf by separating it and stitching it back together.
@Senseless I’d just like to add that there are GUI frontends to tesseract that make things a lot easier. I particularly like gImageReader, but there are plenty of different GUIs for people with different tastes!
I have a Corsair keyboard and on Linux I use ckb-next to control rgb and stuff
RGB isn’t really the issue for me. At least not when using icue. I need it to control my AIO / fans / temps
Ah gotcha. I just set a custom fan curve in the BIOS which has been working well for me in Linux (I also use a Corsair AIO + Commander Pro).
I just learned of the liquidctl application which supposedly works for this. I’ll check it out later this afternoon and see how it works!
Nice. I’d appreciate some feedback, if you like. Currently in the middle of switching to EndeavourOS as a Arch noob. Am I allowed so say “I use arch btw” now?
Windows licenses AFAIK are already rarely bought on their own. The vast majority of users get one by having it bundled to a new device they purchase.
Unless its corporate, because then you are paying for windows separate from the PC, and user based licensing for server access, and subscription fees for office. and EOS W10 fees coming
I’m never daily driving Windows again, but im not sure if I will ever be free of dual booting for some games.
I know at least one person who switched back to Windows but claimed there was no choice. Maybe the people arround that person making the switch to Linux initially does matter. And if they are (still) Windows users, it can happen at the first sign of trouble; especially when they are stubborn Windows users.
Guys, there are people out there Windows is the only OS they want to use despite all the problems.
I’ve made the switch over a decade ago. Ubuntu was the gateway drug. I have to use windows at work, but that’s it.
That’s how you know Linux made it. If people don’t switch back you are doing something right.
Yuuup, never going back to not being in charge of my computer, ever again.
Top ten comments do not mention typo. What a hell is going on. It’s Lenuks, not Linux
Just wait for Windows 10’s service life to run out. That’s when I’m switching full time
Oh god, it’s happening. Everybody stay calm
In Russian it’s called Вендекапец and is a bit like second coming.
Maybe it’s not happening yet, but the bigger share it has, the faster it’ll grow.
And MS and Apple have only themselves to blame.
20 years ago, when the first Linux offensive happened, so to say, with Mandrake and a wave of Linux-native games and proprietary products, and IBM support, people would criticize Linux for having inconsistent chaotic UIs and experience. I was a Windows-only kid, so this is retrospective and people can correct me.
Not sure if anybody remembers, but then you could find most of Windows’ important settings in one place, and it looked so polished and patient and relaxing, both 2000 and XP.
Mac OS X was all about toys and shiny colors, but there was also the spirit of it being very polished and consistent and light and fresh.
So - Linux can still be very usable. While both MacOS and Windows even look cheap, I wonder how they managed to achieve that. Even Gnome doesn’t look cheap despite desperately trying to imitate MacOS. Not even speaking about ergonomics.
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!!1!11
Not until Netcraft confirms that Windows is dead
I’ve driven my laptop for years on Linux, previously mint and recently fedora KDE and given Microsoft’s recent moves 10 Will be my last windows os on my desktop and I’m considering moving before support ends
I would love it if flatpak stopped downloading 70 runtime packages worth 2 GB every time I want a 2 MB package
Also wonder what the hell is your 2MB package that carry a need of 70 runtimes?
Even stuff like Steam for me only pull in like mesa and stuff that are a lot. And barely happenes
In fact. Last time I installed Arch (2 days ago) and I redo my flatpak. 10 apps, pull in 34 packages in total. Further apps only pull in themselves and maybe 1-2 packages with maximum because everything else are covered.
Don
The number 70 (7, 70, 700, …) in some cultures is the “too much” number, not really 70.
This behavior happens when installing whatever package that uses a runtime version different from all ones that are installed already so it downloads its dependencies before the package itself
Or for outdated runtimes
In any case, whatever the cause, in my experience I had to wait for runtime installation way too many times and the 2mb package example was real several times
Which distros use this? I don’t think I’m using them.
probably just a flatpack issue. I don’t bother using flatpack at all and still have not ran into anything that truly needs it (From a gaming use at least)
I’ve personally never had an issue after the gnome and KDE frameworks were installed
Curious how it would be by country. Though I don’t think statcounter could have data in Russia or China.
15% india for some time
I tried to give Windows 11 another go recently just to see how it is, I pulled all my files over including my gog games files which had wineprefixes in the folders, with /appdata folders for each prefix.
Windows decided “you know what, screw c:\users\appdata, lets use the appdata folder in this random gamefolder on a different drive instead” and proceeded to cannibalize itself just breaking the majority of apps. No idea how it can’t recognize that the random wine “windows” files that aren’t in the actual correct locations aren’t the actual location for them. Couldn’t fix it because it thought the “c:” folder in the wine directory was my actual c: drive.
Sure it was an extremely niche issue a Windows user would never realistically run into, but it reminded me just how fragile it is for uncommon usecases
Seriously. Also, now, for common use cases.
i honestly just wanna express my gratitude to all the people who made linux what it is today over the last decades, the experience is incomparable to the one i had when first installing debian in 2007. i wish i were more skilled in order to meaningfully give back to this community.
and to all the newbies: thanks for joining our ranks! please dont be scared by the rather elitist attitude that some users display. we secretly all love you!
If you want to give back but don’t have coding skills, you can always be nice and help onboard new users! There’s always been this attitude of ‘linux is better’ immediately followed by ‘rtfm n00b’ when users try to get started. A more sympathetic crowd would go a long way.
It’s a good thing tfm is so good. I don’t use Arch but I’ve used the Arch Wiki so many times to solve my problems.
Yeah! There’s a lot more to open source projects than code. Even if all you do is edit the docs for punctuation and spelling mistakes you’re helping.
thanks for the piece of mind! while i do have some skills due to my work, its not remotely enough to work on linux. im gonna be a recruiter then…
Probably not a recruiter, but supporting those who are trying to switch or are needing support on forums like here or other places. Help them find solutions, be kind to them when they are struggling, encourage them if another user is derisive.
I think I first installed linux some time around 2009. I’m only just now starting to contribute to libraries, unrelated to linux. Its such a cool feeling growing along side the open source movement.
At this rate we might just see the Year of the Linux DesktopTM on our deathbed!
The year of the Linux desktop was 2005
1991?
Easy. Every year is the Year of the Linux Desktop™.
the real Year of the Linux Desktop™ was the friends we made along the way.
Do you really need that the majority of users use the same OS you use? It’d be nice but not necessary at all.
It helps a lot. Because then, a Linux support won’t be such an afterthought, and you wouldn’t have to deal with stuff like popular games adding anti-cheat that bans Linux users.
Right now, some game developers aren’t even willing to enable EAC Linux support, which is like a one checkbox they need to enable for it to work.
Year of the linux on 3! 1! 2! 3!
I’m doing my part! Just moved to Mint, 3 weeks ago. I had tried with a dual boot previously but moving over to a clean install forced me to find solutions instead of just switching to windows
Honestly the desktop of the future is Chrome OS if we are being honest
haven’t laughed like that in ages thank you for that
I’m dead serious. Just look at the younger generation
the younger generation is fed up with crappy cromebooks stuffed with even more spyware that they’re forced to use by their school.
Chromos will definitely be big, but its limitations mean that it won’t definitely not be able to just take it over.
And given that it relies on Linux apps to run non Android or web apps, AKA desktop apps, I’m quite happy if it grows—Linux development becomes encouraged.
The future as in this will dominate some day or as in this will be the best some day? Cause only one seems reasonable to me.
Never gonna happen because Google will stop developing it any day now.
I seriously doubt it
What’s odd to me is the cultural zeitgeist has moved to folks being aware that Microsoft (& Google & Apple) is collecting data on them to being the butt of jokes, yet those folks aren’t adopting an alternatives. With over a decade on Linux I’m now pretty out of touch with the opposite feeling. I guess the closest analog I have is not being able to realistically leave Android behind, but that is more hardware than software (banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them).
Majority of people just dont care about being spied upon unless it directly affects them somehow, at which point its too late for that person. But others having data on you wont likely directly affect you at the moment so not enough people get burned by it for general attitude to change. Smart people understand that all this can very easily change and prepare by not allowing all of their information be available for questionable people to use. Others make fun of them for this and call them crazy until one day they suddenly aren’t so crazy any more.
I think we need to do some really difficult investigations that essentially can show concrete proof of how this affects people:
"See you were looking up vacations and insurance right? Well you signed up to your car’s connected service, you have an Alexa in your house, and a smart TV and a fridge all talking to each other…and they all worked together to put together a profile of how much you make and how old you are and everything else…
…so your neighbor looked up the same insurance and vacations and is paying about $200 less for the exact same of each, because they use AdBlock and don’t allow spy devices in their house."
And then finish with the real kicker:
“I know you didn’t ask to participate, but we just scraped all this information about you off the Internet and didn’t even need to ask you. We had to ask your neighbor to participate though.”
They actually do care tho about the tracking—if they weren’t privacy wouldn’t be included in marketing like it is now. They are just more willing to accept it as a fact of life rather than dealing with it (or don’t know that they can do something or how to start).
We should make this easier for folks ’cause every email I send from a non-data-collection host usually ends up on a Google or Microsoft server, etc. Every silly Discord chatroom you join, or Facebook page you like has the same ramifications.
A few days ago I tried to install Windows 11 on the PC of a friend. It didn’t work because of missing SATA drivers. Anyway, I was shocked how many points there are where Microsoft or Apple (we used his mac to create the USB drive) tries to sell something (buy pro version of fan controll now) or wants your permissions to gather all your data.
I convinced him to let me install debian. When it came to creating the default user he was hesitant to use his full name, because telemetry :D
I mean I don’t really see the point of using your real name on your system unless you often forget who you are. I would praise my friend tho for having the correct skeptical reaction even if it should be relatively harmless.
I also think it’s a healthy attitude but at the same time it’s sad that people can’t trust their own devices any longer.
Using your real name can have benefits, like metadata in office documents or things like that. If you are sure your devices are yours and secure, there shouldn’t be a reason not to use your own name. Unfortunately this isn’t the case anymore if you are using anything else but Linux
If a machine is going to have multiple users (all my computers have multiple profiles for family members) all those users have to be called something, and I’ve not got the energy or the creativity to come up with fun and funky usernames for every system when my actual name is more than good enough.
Username is required for the home folder & login; name isn’t required for anything
banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them
You can get around that pretty easily by fooling SafetyNet / Play Integrity and hiding root from those apps. My phones have all been rooted for years and I never had issues with banking apps. I don’t even run any google services anymore and the apps I use are fine with that.
Previous phone it worked up until it didn’t. New phone I left unrooted since that was the error they gave me. Now without the root/jailbreak error, I get a useless generic error & the app crashes. I’ve been too lazy to root it just choosing alternative payment methods.
just choosing alternative payment methods.
Probably the better method, no bank is worth going through all that hassle.
I would not say easily. And even if you pass SafetyNet, your banking app may still not work. I have one, and I haven’t figured out what it checks for, maybe LineageOS name or something. Would probably have to tear the apk apart to find out.
Do you use Magisk? I assume you have done the following already?
- Enable Zygisk & the DenyList
- (If Google apps are installed, deny all Google apps root access)
- Deny the app in question root access
- Install PlayIntegrityFix on newer devices OR SafetyNetFix on older devices (don’t install both)
- Reboot, force stop app and clear storage/cache
- (Check if it works with this and this)
That should do it for all apps that do not require strong integrity.
Have you managed to get Google Wallet/Pay working?
banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device
It’s unfortunately only developed for the Pixel series of phones, but I’ve been using my banking apps on GrapheneOS with no issues.
Yep. If it doesn’t have a headphone jack, I don’t want the phone so no to Pixels.
Is that with a locked bootloader and sandbox google play?
(banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them)
Idk why this myth keeps getting peddled. You can use any banking app on any custom ROM, rooted or unrooted (though I see no point in rooting these days). And even if an banking app blocked you from using their app…the mobile website exists if you really need mobile access to your bank.
I haven’t rooted in a long time. What would make the hassle of going to my bank’s website worthwhile these days?
That’s not true. Specially with older banks, they don’t let you run their shitty apps on rooted phones. And some younger banks don’t even let you do certain tasks on the website, they are mobile first.
No rooted phones for our App. No travel to specific locals and countries either. we hvae black lists of Regions of the world where you simply cannot login to your accounts due to overwhelming security concerns and lack of extrajudicial remediation should there be fraud.
mobile website exists if you really need mobile access to your bank.
This isn’t actually always true.
Yeah my girlfriend’s online-only business account can only be used via their proprietary app.
Been a royal pain in the arse for her.
This isn’t a “myth” they detect both root & custom ROMs so even if you wanted to use an unrooted custom ROM you can’t. Rooting your phone just to skirt around them should be the opposite of what they want as there is some security implications to rooting your phone. And the current solutions are all temporary workarounds til the banking apps find a new way to partner with Google to prevent modifications of any kind.
In my country, at least one bank has shutdown & discontinued their website which is often just the first domino before others start doing it too. My bank is slow to adopt tech, but their site was created to detect IE and Netscape Navigator. I would assume they would kill that website before upgrading it to actually work on the modern web where a fixed CRT isn’t the only screen size.
I’m using Kitsune Mask right now and it’s working pretty well on hiding root from my banking app and Google pay.
I have been slowly switching to Linux for the last year. I have 2 Lenovo ThinkPad’s and an HP EliteDesk running Ubuntu. I have my gaming PC dual booted but, for the moment, mainly using Linux Mint.
It has been an easy transition and I am not some Linux whiz.
You’re a whiz now Harry!
Keep running it for a while and after some time 5 or 10 years you will struggle when people ask you about (basic) Windows stuff.
“Oh to change that basic thing? Control panel…wait…no…the other control panel, the real one…no …(searches it despite MS hiding it more than ever) ok now it’s in one of these obscure hyperlinks half-assedly tossed to the side…which opens a dialogue…with 4 tabs…after you click “advanced”…THERE I turned off Fastboot for you.”
I can’t believe that’s how I used to have to do things lmao.
The scariest thing they can do to Linux now market-wise is to bring back Windows 2000’s UI and paradigm and cleanliness, but with modern kernel and drivers and functionality.
Thankfully they are too dumb for that.
Unfortunately, since I refuse to use any iShit products, I can troubleshoot Windows or Linux just fine. Don’t ask me about iOS. It’s nothing but a PITA
