This country has already crossed the Rubicon after the events of January 6th in my opinion. What’s we saw in LA was the declaration of war from this administration on its own people. We need to unite, fight, and stand against this tyrannical regime. If the White House is afraid of us now just you wait you pos’s.
Remember historically successful resitances don’t meet the enemy on an open front. They harrass and kill individuals. Soldiers that are alone, at home, and at the bar have historically been targets
Im trying to imagine being an american warcrimer being exposed to this, stuff like french and dutch and eastern european partisans pulled in world war two, and i dont think im even getting a full picture of how much it would suck to be them.
And I think it would suck a lot. Like, even the co workers of a guy who got lured out on tinder or something and butchered would be fucked the hell up. And since everything has so much of the same stuff as home-all the traffic signs and most of the big chain stores etc, all the people look pretty much like the ones at home, there wouldn’t really be any way to heal from the trauma.
Like, if you watch sargent bob get splattered all over you and got some nasty burns from an ied in front of the wal mart on mlkjr blvd in los angeles across from a poorly greebled 5over1, and you went home, i dont think you’d be cool going past the wal mart on mlk jr blvd in Tallahassee or whatever shit hole they fished hypothetical baby storm trooper you out of, or living in a poorly greebled 5over1. Doubly so if the guy who did it had been in the same frat as your father in law, and you saw pictures of him in some family photo album years later.
Even small crap would echo out for decades. They would kind of be ‘over’ as people.
Im not sure i would have any sympathy, but damn, that’s an ugly fucking outcome. Really hoping enough of them have enough of a conscience to not press the metaphorical big red button, and we dont end up either there, or Dachau.
I’m all for this
I worry that if it reaches a point where he’s genuinely worried about being deposed, he wouldn’t hesitate to drop nukes on American civilians.
I do agree but with the nukes thing idk I could see Donny declaring martial law and suspending elections till the “protesters” are gone and when that doesn’t work then it will get worse, if we allow it too.
Civilians are going to be gunned down. The media will paint the victims as violent criminals. In the burbs, Frank Freeway and Mary Minivan won’t care, what’s on Netflix?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming
We’re finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in OhioGotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been gone long ago
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?I don’t want to downplay the alarm bells going off over this move. It’s definitely as bad as many are saying. On the other hand, I do want to set some right expectations. National guardsmen are modern professional soldiers and, as such, are far more disciplined than average police officers. Civilian casualties are always a possibility, and might even be what this administration wants, but I think it’s unlikely that we’ll see anything like another Kent State. If anything, I’ll bet most of the guardsmen are pretty frustrated with Trump for being called up for bullshit reasons.
Frustrated, modern (whatever that means in this context), professional, and yet, still willing to point a gun at peaceful civilian protestors.
The jackboot is coming down on your head, but at least it’s polished, neatly tied, and only coming down hard enough to knock you out, not kill you.
Modern, as in trained for flexible mission parameters in a modern urban environment where earning/keeping the respect of the local civilian population is a critical part of the mission. A step beyond the reactionary notion that Brute force and brutal suppression are always the most effective path. A military where soldiers are trained to question orders and made individually responsible for following illegal orders.
For example, say what you will about America’s ultimate failure in Afghanistan, our soldiers on the ground became experts in local culture and factions and built cooperation to achieve mission objectives without alienating the population. If our political leadership was as professional as our soldiers I think things would have ended a lot differently.
I think the key difference between soldiers, leadership at home, and police: The soldiers are at risk of dying, if they piss off the locals. Our police and politicians are insulated from the consequences of stupidity and malice, so they never develop the character needed to ease tensions.
The training is not even similar, and neither are the hiring practices. I think that is the key difference.
I don’t think you are entirely wrong though. Police tend to act very differently when up against protesters who are known to be armed. That’s a big reason why concealed carry is allowed in many places when open carry isn’t. The politicians don’t want their thugs to be intimidated.
I think there’s a chance they dont pull the trigger when the order comes, or point up the chain of command. Thats kind of the only option for avoiding Really Bad here.
I dont have enough faith in them to expect any particular outcome here, but it’s in their hands. Kind of holding my breath.
The order is far from certain to come. It’s not like Trump or his buddies will be anywhere close to the action, and a general order to unnecessarily fire on civilians is not even likely to be passed down.
The order will be issued from tge top. Its already in the minds of every cop.
The question is how far down the chain it gets.
Maybe the general says ‘No.’
Maybe a captain goes off mission.
Maybe a bottom level guy pretends his gun is jammed.
And maybe if they all fail, we go from the bad timeline to the worse one
Do you still have misplaced faith in US institutions? Your conjecture was proven incorrect in less than 24 hours.
My point was that soldiers are less likely than cops to unnecessarily use lethal force, and you think that cops using lethal force is somehow a counterexample? Logic.
To be fair those incidents aren’t inconsistent with his hopes, that the national guard may be more restrained than the police forces that did those actions.
Police have spent an entire career actively considering the civilian population potential enemies at all times, with less vetting and training than you’d hope they should have.
National Guardsmen have access to equipment and training, but their careers are less likely to have been antagonistic to civilian populations.
This may be an overly optimistic viewpoint, but it’s not one disproved by those incidents just yet.
To be fair, that was a cop, trained to panic
Edit: nevermind. Got on wifi and watched video. That was a cop trained that there are no consequences for its actions, and getting off on the impunity.
Not trying to defend NG or any US troops, but those examples were from the LA police, not the national guard. Of all the worst direct violence I’ve seen so far from LA, National Guard haven’t been the ones attacking. From reports I’ve heard they are mostly standing around federal property because that’s all they have jurisdiction at.
I think the problem though is neither side is going to back down which means clashes between troops/police is going to keep escalating until someone at one of these events pushes things too far and the troops/police end up firing on people. Especially as they are most likely going to start trying to push to end the protests through arrests rather then just focusing on control which will just antagonize people more. Realistically what other end scenario is there to this if Trump keeps throwing gasoline on the fire? It’s either gonna be a brutal crackdown on the protests with “less then lethal” weapons done by the military or end up being a bloodbath. Either way both outcomes would be horrifying to see happening in America, dictators use the military to put down protests and if we let that happen without any kind of severe backlash then we’re pretty much fucked.
"Oh, you have a [baby|upcoming deadline|scheduled holiday] in your regular life? Drop everything and harass these protesters while trying not to worry about regular life "
I’d be frustrated, too.
I agree for the army. National guard? Nope. As redneck as it gets.
Pretty much everyone I’ve even met in the national gaurd are people who re-enlisted after their first stint in the army to get a regular paycheck while they go to school
There’s plenty of modern professional soldiers doing the worst shit imaginable with a smile on there face.
Modern is different from contemporary, and by professional I don’t just mean paid.
Yeah but the idea is the bar for them to start is higher than cops, who are trained to panic. I really fucking hope so.
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No, I never heard of Kent State. If I had I might have mentioned it in my above comment. Oh, wait.
Oops haha thanks.
Lulz. The bulk of the military is 18Y old chumps.
I have trust in the generals, but they keep getting fired by this administration. The enlisted mooks will brainlessly shoot at civilians and call themselves heroes if given the chance.
The grunts and mooks aren’t professional at all. That’s the fucking point.
Police are those who actually study the law. Soldiers at best know they haven’t studied the law. It’s always the generals and officers who step in and protect us from the dumbasses, but the brains of the military are actively being drained right now.
Police are those who actually study the law.
Funniest thing I’ve read all week
You may laugh but it’s the reality.
Soldiers don’t have legal training, riot training, or any other legal maneuver. Meanwhile, Police and Police investigators need to actually win court cases if they want their charges to stick.
Police know what they can get away with given the local judges and politicians.
This liberal fantasy where your enemies can just be ‘taught’ habeus corpus and suddenly agree with you is just fucking fantasy. Maybe the dumbass soldiers might learn that but Police absolutely already have legal training and experience in legal matters. They won’t listen to your lectures on legality.
The benefit to soldiers is that they often know they don’t know legal matters and know their ignorance on riot training. But otherwise you have to treat typical soldiers as ignorant. Police on the other hand are pretending to be dumb, they have far more legal experience than typical citizens.
That doesn’t make Police correct mind you. It just makes them more legally experienced.
The police system actively rejects people for being too smart, and ousts people that ask too many questions. I don’t know if the “legal experience” police officers receive is the kind of experience we want them to receive.
I’m not saying it’s what we want them to receive.
But Police are constantly surrounded by lawyers, criminologists and judges. You ain’t convincing them of anything, they have higher trusted authorities on the issue of law and a single officer likely have stood inside of courtrooms longer than you and me and everyone else in this thread combined. (Unless we have a lawyer in the peanut gallery??)
So this idea that you can just call them ignorant of law (and consequently, capable of learning or changing their opinions on these issues give. Am online debate) is… grossly optimistic.
You have to see them as legal professionals. Not necessarily legal authorities (like a judge or lawyer). But as a legal professional, cops almost certainly know more about law then the typical person. Enough to be dangerous.
Trained enough to be stubborn.
I feel like there isn’t an assertion that the police would act out from ignorance of the law, but just how they operate. If anything the enhanced legal awareness may embolden them to know how far they can push the line and get away with it.
More than the legal awareness or lack thereof, there’s the nature of the careers. American police day to day consider everyone around them to have the capacity to become a threat. The national guard certainly will have training, but most of their actual job experience on average has been devoid of actual potential threats.
At least, there’s the hope this is true, to offset the rather dire context of federal authority mobilizing military within a state against the will of that state…
You have to see them as legal professionals.
Nah, not until they act like it.
Can you do me a favor and restate your point in clear, succinct language? I’m not really following the point you’re trying to make with all this “law professional” stuff
The average age for active duty enlisted is 28.5yo, not 18.
Yes, active duty law enforcement is more competent at the intricacies of law enforcement, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about things like trigger discipline and doing proper reconnaissance before charging into a situation.
As far as I’m aware, the guard still doesn’t have the power of arrest anyways. They will have to coordinate such actions with local law enforcement. They have no prosecutors or jails store detainees.
Given the general reaction to Lugi I’d be more inclined to think they just paint themselves as the villain. People, not everyone but some, are realizing what’s going on. They tell their friends and so on.
People that I know who never cared about politics are taking strong stances. I know it looks grim but I feel like the people are waking up and this is the reaction to that, but in this day and age you can’t stop a large shift that easy.
It might start that way, but there’s 3.8 million people in just L.A. proper, I think he’s deployed too little for the instability of the situation but time will tell.
Fascists only leave power one way
Trump needs to be removed from office before this gets worse.
He shouldn’t have even been an option
C’mon all you snooty history and politics grad school students… Figure out a way! Show us how smart you guys are and such. Remember in highschool how smart you used to think you were compared to the other kids who brought lunch because they couldn’t afford it? Now a bigger asshole is shooting at them. This is your chance! Your big break! Demonstrate your clear intellectual superiority. I’m one of those poor kids and if it wasn’t for things I design you wouldn’t have that little shiny square of pixels thar you’re reading this on. So raise up you mofos! The entire world needs you to grow balls. Bernie went to jail a few times for the good of his community. What are you gonna do? Go join up with the motorcycle and flag guy and show us real leadership.
Otherwise, please oh please let’s see motorcycle and Mexican flag guy as a member of Congress. I can imagine him now. Bandana and all. Looking cholo. “Chale! I don’t like this bill, I ain’t signing nothing!”
If you went to school to be a politician, you owe this society a solution to remove Trump and his entire family and possy from politics. Grow balls and pay it forward!
And yet you take the time to write this crap. You have no idea who you are talking to… don’t assume what people are doing outside of your view.
I’m actually right with you. All I’m saying is to get every god dammed politician wanna be out there leading. If they really want to be the next politician that wins our popular vote, this is the time to shine. Bernie was out there putting his neck on the line. You know what I mean? This is it. Like don’t come to us 5 years later with orange guy in jail and steal leadership with cheap tricks. Its now, bring it on.
THAT I can agree with.
Talk about airing out your trauma online. This is a cry for help poorly dressed up as a call to arms.
Yeah. But let’s get them politicians who are on our side and have them resolve this political problem… Remove the orange piece of shit that got stuck in the drain… Some politicians can do plumbing. I think everyone else is pretty much out there screaming as best we can that the drain is plugged with a big piece of orange shit.
Yeah, anyone thinking that there is even a remotely fair election in 2026 and again in 2028 really should come and take a look at that bridge in my backyard that I’m selling…
Don’t worry , all of this means that somehow the stock market will rally on Monday and that’s really all that matters.
How much? I only got thee fiddy
how big is it
That’s a lot of nazis.
Buy guns if you don’t have any yet.
I live across the big pond and even I’m getting guns. Fascism has a nasty habit of spreading like wildfire, even before the era of Internet.
But I thought guns couldn’t be used to fight the government and gun owners are stupid.
He wants to machine gun Americans
No no no. When push comes to shove the heroic military will fight against fascism. Ignore all the fucking evidence to the contrary and support the troops.
Not wrong. At “best,” we’ll see a fracturing of the military…which could be much more trouble than it’s worth. I’d expect a small wave of resignations/desertions (since resignation for an officer takes a long time). The remainder of good people will actively try to avoid and sea-lawyer their way out of doing any damage to civilians without violating orders. There will be a good chunk who will happily fire on US civilians, though.
Resignations are only useful in the short term.
In the long term, Resignations provide new opportunities for the loyal to gain power and recruit.
Yep, but those who resign for moral reasons will be more likely to take actual actions to protest/stop what’s happening. The military will have a hard time recruiting competent people in that environment, though, and the people taking the vacancies will likely have diminishing competence as time goes on.
To put it in perspective, if more officers retire at 20, they’ll generally be O-5s (Lieutenant Colonels or Commanders), and so the next year’s promotion cycle will need to promote more O-4s to cover the vacancies. This will then trickle down, and suddenly, you have officers who have been O-3s for just a couple of years being promoted to O-4 rather than waiting longer and gaining experience.
In that scenario, there will be less efficiency in planning and execution and far more incompetence, and if being used against civilians, more brutality. But incompetence is easier to defeat in the long run. Seeing the incompetence and brutality will deprive the military of the smartest recruits who staff the important IT, intelligence, cyber, etc. communities. So, while they may get true believers, a lower proportion will be competent.
No matter how it shakes out, it will get very bad.
The military will have a hard time recruiting competent people in that environment, though,
They don’t need competent people. They only need obedient cannon fodder.
That isn’t a winning strategy when your ousted minority officers are not just competent, but also become opposed to your actions. The Trump Regime hurt minority soldiers, and those troops will ally with whoever resists the Trump Regime.
An veteran military almost always will beat a green one, many times demonstrated throughout history.
I didn’t say it was a good plan…
Yep, but those who resign for moral reasons will be more likely to take actual actions to protest/stop what’s happening
No. They won’t. Or, to be more blunt, the people who would actually be useful won’t. Because they are the ones who understand the world isn’t Call of Duty and a single guy with a pistol isn’t actually going to Jack Bauer his way through an entire armed escort.
The military will have a hard time recruiting competent people
They already do. That is why the military is dumb as a door knob and full of the kind of people who just want an excuse to shoot some folk whether they are brown or not.
This will then trickle down, and suddenly, you have officers who have been O-3s for just a couple of years being promoted to O-4 rather than waiting longer and gaining experience.
Oh, well then. That will solve everything.
The ASVAB was pretty basic when I took it. Fortunately, a health condition at the time kept me from basic.
Breathe. We will get through this, and how is a question worth considering, as the commenter above was doing before your sweaty takedown.
If you need to share this burden of despair with someone, my DMs are open. Spreading it among comrades is not OK.
We convince officers and other respected leaders to coup at the right time at the right signal.
But we also accept that the Grunts and dumbasses are gonna dumbass. Maybe you can get like an E-8 or E-9 on our side but don’t give much effort to E-3 or E-5.
But sitting around hoping that the military just magically appears on our side (that leans hard into Libertarianism at best and outright far right hooo rah at worst) is dumb.
I’m addressing an instance of doomerism. Participation of current or former military in the rebellion occupies my thoughts far less than that, currently.
It takes active recruitment if we want the military on the side of the people.
MAYBE that would have worked on the “I just want to go to college” Desert Storm kids.
We spent the better part of 20 years at continual war training an army to commit atrocities in the name of “peace keeping”. Anybody joining under those circumstances either started out brainwashed (“My daddy and his daddy and his daddy were all marines!”) or are basically cops who just want an excuse to wave a gun around.
At best? We are looking at the equivalent of trotting out liz cheney at the DNC. Sure there are “moderates” who might be won over. But the moment they hear that somebody doesn’t like whatever “moderate” belief they have they’ll go straight maga and then insist it is your fault for not winning their vote by slaughtering a few trans kids.
I’d say the vast majority of people in the military these days are poor kids looking for an escape to cyclical poverty.
“These days” being the last 50+ years.
Even that is fading because the tendency to fuck over the VA is so known.
That said: the people whose entire existence depends on pulling the trigger ain’t walking away because it might hurt the people who they kind of rightfully feel already abandoned them.
Yes, if they live through it, talking about everything from food, to housing, “vaccines”, and God knows what else. I’m not antivax either.
"What makes the green grass grow?!”
They should stop lying and using recruits as guinea pigs then
When push comes to shove the heroic military will fight against fascism.
In addition, the Secretary of Defense may employ any other members of the regular Armed Forces as necessary to augment and support the protection of Federal functions and property in any number determined appropriate in his discretion.
Because fuck the Posse Comitatus Act
Yup, but that line was crossed when he federalized National Guard troops for domestic policing. Federalized National Guard troops are legally the same as active duty military, both are title 10 troops and are restricted in their domestic use to the same degree. There is legally no difference between federalized National Guard and any active duty military, including tier one special forces as far as posse comitatus. This is a flagrant and illegal abuse of emergency powers.
Trump needs to watch Civil War
Bold of you to assume he would learn anything
He should be made to participate in one.
He is gearing up for it
LA is also a good opportunity to say: This and this and this high ranking officer failed and will be replaced (by a loyalist).
Yup. And so he can purge anyone that doesn’t follow orders. This is what you voted for protest-non-voters.
You are not going to get fucknuts rump out of there by buying him a McD’s burger that is for sure.
been saying it since 2021, the US will fall into a civil war. you have a radicalized right with too many armed militias to count and a liberal left which don’t possess the firepower to fight back. add ethnic diversity, vast wealth inequality and political ideologies to it to cast the flame.
There are too many self-interested factions with incompatible ideologies. I don’t think we’re entering into civil war or some collapse but the US will definitely enshittify at a steady pace for the rest of its existence as a nation-state.
